Do I expect too much ?

[westley]

Having spent best part of Thursday afternoon at 2 gun shops to look at guns, that a friend was looking to buy, I was a bit shocked by their presentation. The first shop had 3 guns advertised that we wished to view. All were semi auto's. Due to my friends recent health issues, he decided to buy an auto, so we were looking at Beretta 303's. The first gun was well knocked about, complete with a dented rib and a crater in the stock, where a sling swivel had previously lived. It was absolutely filthy when I took it apart. It was impossible to see if there was any pitting in the barrel. The next gun we looked at was exactly the same. When asked if the guns came with any spare chokes or a choke key, the answer was "No" ! Now this shop advertises used chokes for sale on their website. The young shop assistant was more intent on checking what guns they had in stock via the computer, which was perched on the counter, rather than coming onto the shop floor to deal with us. We thanked him for his trouble and left. There were 4 or 5 members of Staff in that shop, most hiding behind the counter. So onwards and upwards to the next shop. There were 2 guns to look at here. At least the guns were taken off the rack and put on a table for our perusal. Once again, I remove the forend and barrel from one and sure enough, it was not exactly clean. The other gun, although not what I would consider clean, did show some signs of being better cared for. That was the gun we bought.
Now, call me old fashioned but, either these guns entered the shop in that condition, or they have been taken out, tried, and then returned uncleaned. Either way, if it was my shop, they would be looking a damned sight more saleable. Is it beyond their capability to find a local youngster, who would be prepared to work a Saturday morning in the back of the shop making the guns look more presentable ? I could not take a gun into a gun shop in that condition. My gun's are immaculate, am I expecting too much to see shop stock more presentable ? I know we were looking sub £400 here, but better a few £400's in the till than left on the shelf, because of how they look.

 

[jasper]

Seems to be a trend in a lot of industries. Since covid most buisness seem to think we are grateful to be alive. And therefore happy to buy any old crap. The used car market being exactly the same. I spent a considerable amount of time(and money) looking at cars , to find one that was in nice condition. Can't tell you how many I walked from. Including £25k beemers and stuff. They chance their arm . Then a woke 20 something comes along with low standards and buys any rubbish. Incredibly frustrating. Especially when these businesses start bleating about how trade is low. Lazy .

 

[Centrepin]

I think it's pretty much standard these days, you're expected to pay inflated prices for tat.

After realising my MK38 was now too heavy for me I cleaned it throughly although I always kept it immaculate, took it including spare chokes and triggers to several gun dealers only to be offered between £200 and £400.

I sold it privately.

Looking for a lightweight gun I was offered filthy old pitted tat with obvious damage for huge prices, ie: Beretta Ultralight unknown age, damaged top rib, disintegrated butt pad and filthy for £1300.

I decided to buy a KOFs brand new to put me on (correct weight for me). I was shown a gun obviously been fired as barrel was full of crud, told it was "new" I refused it.
Bought one elsewhere, actually new. It's for sale now should anyone want it. Nice enough gun but built to a price.

After searching for around 18 months I dropped on the right gun at the right price that was in good order, clean and was the correct LOP. It's now my everything gun untill I can justify a brand new one

The amount of dealers I've sworn never to visit or deal with again is vast.

My nearest trusted RFD is just over 2 hours drive, the one I visit most 4 1/2 hours.

Are my standards that high? NO, I just expect value and service and don't object to paying for it.

 

[lh8611]

Having spent best part of Thursday afternoon at 2 gun shops to look at guns, that a friend was looking to buy, I was a bit shocked by their presentation. The first shop had 3 guns advertised that we wished to view. All were semi auto's. Due to my friends recent health issues, he decided to buy an auto, so we were looking at Beretta 303's. The first gun was well knocked about, complete with a dented rib and a crater in the stock, where a sling swivel had previously lived. It was absolutely filthy when I took it apart. It was impossible to see if there was any pitting in the barrel. The next gun we looked at was exactly the same. When asked if the guns came with any spare chokes or a choke key, the answer was "No" ! Now this shop advertises used chokes for sale on their website. The young shop assistant was more intent on checking what guns they had in stock via the computer, which was perched on the counter, rather than coming onto the shop floor to deal with us. We thanked him for his trouble and left. There were 4 or 5 members of Staff in that shop, most hiding behind the counter. So onwards and upwards to the next shop. There were 2 guns to look at here. At least the guns were taken off the rack and put on a table for our perusal. Once again, I remove the forend and barrel from one and sure enough, it was not exactly clean. The other gun, although not what I would consider clean, did show some signs of being better cared for. That was the gun we bought.
Now, call me old fashioned but, either these guns entered the shop in that condition, or they have been taken out, tried, and then returned uncleaned. Either way, if it was my shop, they would be looking a damned sight more saleable. Is it beyond their capability to find a local youngster, who would be prepared to work a Saturday morning in the back of the shop making the guns look more presentable ? I could not take a gun into a gun shop in that condition. My gun's are immaculate, am I expecting too much to see shop stock more presentable ? I know we were looking sub £400 here, but better a few £400's in the till than left on the shelf, because of how they look.

I've PM'd you

 

[Clear Miss]

I was looking for a dedicated game gun a year or so ago and looked at the usual suspects like SPs, 525s etc. Everything I looked at under £1000 at RFDs were basically ready to be cut up and put in the smelter. Stocks that had lumps out of them, blueing that was more brown than blue. Actions that were either as a slack as an old pair of pants or held tight with corrosion and no lubrication.

Keeping in mind that a new 525 game was around £1500 at the time and an SP a little more it just wasn't worth buying a used gun that had done a lifetimes worth of work and could break down at any time on peg and waste an expensive days shooting.

I ended up with a new 525 game laminate for £1700. £700 more than I had budgeted but at least it was new and its condition known.

I had traded in an as new 686 sporter the year previous and got £900 for it so I fully expected to be able to get a used but good condition game gun for around the same.

I think the issue seems to be that people expect top dollar when they trade in their old tired guns and RFDs are in no position to turn away business so they accept the trade. They then have an old tired gun that they've paid over the odds for to shift a new gun with a healthy margin on it and expect to be able at least make their trade in value back. They also have to account for VAT on the sale of the used gun which instantly adds 20% to the sticker price. The 686 I traded in for £900 was out on the shelf same day for £1100 which left £20 in it for the RFD after VAT.

 

[westley]

I did not think VATwas applicable on a used gun, it already having been paid by the first owner ?

 

[Mulligan]

As I understand it VAT is applicable to the profit that is made
ie £1100 - £900 = £200 profit * 20% VAT = £40
Which leaves £160 in it for the dealer on top of the healthy margin on the new gun

 

[Charliej]

I was looking for a dedicated game gun a year or so ago and looked at the usual suspects like SPs, 525s etc. Everything I looked at under £1000 at RFDs were basically ready to be cut up and put in the smelter. Stocks that had lumps out of them, blueing that was more brown than blue. Actions that were either as a slack as an old pair of pants or held tight with corrosion and no lubrication.

Keeping in mind that a new 525 game was around £1500 at the time and an SP a little more it just wasn't worth buying a used gun that had done a lifetimes worth of work and could break down at any time on peg and waste an expensive days shooting.

I ended up with a new 525 game laminate for £1700. £700 more than I had budgeted but at least it was new and its condition known.

I had traded in an as new 686 sporter the year previous and got £900 for it so I fully expected to be able to get a used but good condition game gun for around the same.

I think the issue seems to be that people expect top dollar when they trade in their old tired guns and RFDs are in no position to turn away business so they accept the trade. They then have an old tired gun that they've paid over the odds for to shift a new gun with a healthy margin on it and expect to be able at least make their trade in value back. They also have to account for VAT on the sale of the used gun which instantly adds 20% to the sticker price. The 686 I traded in for £900 was out on the shelf same day for £1100 which left £20 in it for the RFD after VAT.

Don't there is any vat on a second hand gunonly on a new gun.