Even more exciting news

[Bryn12]

:wink: I was taking the pis....

Keep at it Bryn. If you find a trouble bird ask the ground if you can come back to practice on that target....or hang on until the end and shoot a box at it then. Helps to have someone help you....if not just experiment .....and when you hit it....remember what you did...

:mosking:   

I find if I go back a couple of days later my autonomic system usually has it sussed as long as I don't let my conscious brain interfere. I suppose at the moment its all about building up experience of as many different presentations as possible.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Exactly.

 

[Salopian]

Nicola wrote :-

"Also this thing about the bar not being removable should have been sorted first day with the head ref David Jellicoe (also Chairman of Cpsa) who would have immediately realised the problem pointed out and made a sensible decision (ie shoot from side of cage)."

I was told by Paul Bailey that he did point this out to David Jellicoe immediately!

The problem with the cage on the other thread about shooting a overhead driven pair should have been resolved correctly also if people knew the rules.

Surely they have read them, or consult them if in doubt?

Nicola, please don't accuse me of moaning when competitors are disadvantaged!

I have organised a few shoots in my time, without any complaints. I have also been doing it for a long time.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Salop....What did Mr Jellicoe actually say in his reply. No hearsay please.

It is a shame that Paul did not contact me. I would have gone round with him and ensured he got to the stands.

It was not an impossible task at all.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Nicola, please don't accuse me of moaning when competitors are disadvantaged!

Moaning.......what .........were you moaning...?I had not noticed any difference from your normal posts Salop darling :kiss:

Terribly sorry pooooopey......Which bit accuses you of moaning....are we on this thread or another thread....or did you dream a thread?

 

[Salopian]

Is dementia starting Nicola?

YOU said:-

"Salop....if you are about to start slagging off an event that you were not even at....when so much effort by so many has gone into it....then you are not the fair man I think you are."

I suggest you ask Paul Bailey what he was told, he was the one disadvantaged.

Maybe I was dreaming that a number of wheelchair shooters were telephoned by the CPSA and told not to bother coming as stands 1-5 were in-accessible to wheelchairs.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Is dementia starting Nicola?YOU said:-"Salop....if you are about to start slagging off an event that you were not even at....when so much effort by so many has gone into it....then you are not the fair man I think you are."I suggest you ask Paul Bailey what he was told, he was the one disadvantaged.Maybe I was dreaming that a number of wheelchair shooters were telephoned by the CPSA and told not to bother coming as stands 1-5 were in-accessible to wheelchairs.

So....I did not say you were moaning.......and you do not know what was actually said.....

Thanks for clarifying :wink:

 

[Salopian]

No you accused me of slagging the event off which I didn't actually do.

I also did not say that I didn't know what was said. FACT.

Ask Paul Bailey . Just saying. Fact . Truth.

 

[Joe Nash]

Salop....What did Mr Jellicoe actually say in his reply. No hearsay please.

It is a shame that Paul did not contact me. I would have gone round with him and ensured he got to the stands.

It was not an impossible task at all.

I was once told by the CPSA that i would not be able to shoot a major at Doveridge because, i have a Camo colour Wheelchair, then after  complaining they said i would not be able to get up the hill, and at some stands i would not be able to get into and  i could not shoot outside for safety reasons. But to be fair Nicola did offer to try to help me, but it turned out that i was taken ill and could not go. But i still have my Camo army type chair that i shoot from, but no more major shoots for me, CAMO is not allowed. I cant be bothered with all these stupid rules the CPSA have, and now to Top it all, where i do shoot they have put in Raised Platforms.  :fool:

 

[paul b]

The facts are that the targets and the ground and atmosphere were outstanding,but the cages were not made to the spec as laid down in the rule book for sportrap.As i was on a squad of able boded shooters (as it should be) going to the side or infront would not be good for the squad as a whole,a removable bar would mean i could shoot on a fair and equal footing with the able boded shooters i want to beet(i honestly think i could of won my letterd class) other than getting a saw and hammer out i couldnt see how else i could shoot with my squad.After i went straight to mr jellicoe and told him about the problem,i also asked him if he had read the rule book regarding cage sizes to which he repplied no not today.The cages were the same the day after so i wasted my breath there ,on sportrap there is no need to have anyone disabled or not outside of the cages if they are built right.

The world english sporting well i have been looking forward to this for a while and just starting to get on form too just in time,i found out that polaris had kindley supplied a atv to get us around on,which is great but if we had been asked about it we could of said getting on and off one  of those 28 times would be like a marathon.Got my room booked (no cancalation) started packing friday afternoon and the cpsa phoned up to say that stands 1to5 on red would be impossible to get to,so i said what not even with the atv and they said not with anything on wheels.So do i go for the otters or not,after a sleaples night and ringing shooters who had gone thurs fri, i decided that it would be the most expensive and painfull shoot ever and pulled out. 

Hearsay

I have spoken a lot of shooters who i trust and the generall opinion is that there was a lot of stands on the skunt(slope)making balance verging on the dangerous and they dont believe a wheelchair user would of had a fair shoot.But i wasnt there so this bit is hearsay and not something i can comment on with any fact. 

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Yes it was a shame that the bars were not made removable....but i think maybe this was not mentioned at the planning stage...i do not know.

It is such a simple thing to do. Maybe DSG should push Cpsa for a change in the rules for cages?

As for the sporting.....we are not talking huge numbers for wheelchairs so i am sure that you would have been accommodated if you had spoken to EJC (and Rob) prior to the event to make sure that Cpsa had told them that there were disabled entries or even checked the help with Rob before pulling out. I am sure it could have been worked in the planning. I think i only saw 2 wheelchair entries, but could be mistaken. Do you know how many wanted to enter in the sitting category Paul?

There were certainly enough people around to help get to the awkward stands...if you did not mind being hauled around. 

It really means that in the planning stage someone representing the DSG should have been asked the questions. 

It is always difficult to get wheelchairs around green field sites, but as i said, it is not that we are talking very large numbers and could be accommodated. (As for slopes...then wheelchairs could be held just like in curling...it just means extra planning on behalf of both the ground and the shooter if we are being fair.)

It is a real shame that you could not shoot it Paul because i know you were looking forward to it. 

 

[Joe Nash]

The facts are that the targets and the ground and atmosphere were outstanding,but the cages were not made to the spec as laid down in the rule book for sportrap.As i was on a squad of able boded shooters (as it should be) going to the side or infront would not be good for the squad as a whole,a removable bar would mean i could shoot on a fair and equal footing with the able boded shooters i want to beet(i honestly think i could of won my letterd class) other than getting a saw and hammer out i couldnt see how else i could shoot with my squad.After i went straight to mr jellicoe and told him about the problem,i also asked him if he had read the rule book regarding cage sizes to which he repplied no not today.The cages were the same the day after so i wasted my breath there ,on sportrap there is no need to have anyone disabled or not outside of the cages if they are built right.

The world english sporting well i have been looking forward to this for a while and just starting to get on form too just in time,i found out that polaris had kindley supplied a atv to get us around on,which is great but if we had been asked about it we could of said getting on and off one  of those 28 times would be like a marathon.Got my room booked (no cancalation) started packing friday afternoon and the cpsa phoned up to say that stands 1to5 on red would be impossible to get to,so i said what not even with the atv and they said not with anything on wheels.So do i go for the otters or not,after a sleaples night and ringing shooters who had gone thurs fri, i decided that it would be the most expensive and painfull shoot ever and pulled out. 

Hearsay

I have spoken a lot of shooters who i trust and the generall opinion is that there was a lot of stands on the skunt(slope)making balance verging on the dangerous and they dont believe a wheelchair user would of had a fair shoot.But i wasnt there so this bit is hearsay and not something i can comment on with any fact. 

Sounds like he was being Sarcastic, this Mr Jellicoe.When you only asked if he had read the rule book to come out with, "No not today".  "Another not fit for purpose.  :rtfm:

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Steady people.....

The time to make sure of any accommodating is really at the planning stage....and for next time ...if it were me....I would speak to the ground and course planner direct. Just a polite suggestion.

It is a real shame as i said because the publicity from any great score done might have helped highlight the entry to the Paralympics issue, even if it is a different discipline.

 

[Joe Nash]

Yes it was a shame that the bars were not made removable....but i think maybe this was not mentioned at the planning stage...i do not know.

It is such a simple thing to do. Maybe DSG should push Cpsa for a change in the rules for cages?

As for the sporting.....we are not talking huge numbers for wheelchairs so i am sure that you would have been accommodated if you had spoken to EJC (and Rob) prior to the event to make sure that Cpsa had told them that there were disabled entries or even checked the help with Rob before pulling out. I am sure it could have been worked in the planning. I think i only saw 2 wheelchair entries, but could be mistaken. Do you know how many wanted to enter in the sitting category Paul?

There were certainly enough people around to help get to the awkward stands...if you did not mind being hauled around. 

It really means that in the planning stage someone representing the DSG should have been asked the questions. 

It is always difficult to get wheelchairs around green field sites, but as i said, it is not that we are talking very large numbers and could be accommodated. (As for slopes...then wheelchairs could be held just like in curling...it just means extra planning on behalf of both the ground and the shooter if we are being fair.)

It is a real shame that you could not shoot it Paul because i know you were looking forward to it. 

Nicola, it`s not do we mind being hauled about, and we are thankfull for the help given. But it Hurts, as we have all sorts attached to our bodies, and just think if you are in front by 3 clays of the guy holding the rope . He might let go.  :laugh:

 

[paul b]

nicola,the change to the rule about cages is aready there in booklet 7 section 8.3.

You are right these things should of gotten looked at during the planning stages ,again lack of comunication from cpsa i would expect.  

There was only two of us shooting the sitting class.

Getting around a greenfield site is easy with a bit of thought,when i send my letter to the cpsa i will sugest they buy a ramped trailer with wheelchair clamps fitted that can go behind any atv 4x4 or tractor,it can go to any major and be used if a wheelchair user needs it and a square plate with adjustable legs could be made to fit in cages to take away the slope, if needed (loads of grants available to sporting bodies to improve disabled acces to sport)if we had this and a planning stage inspection by one of us all would be good.

 

[Salopian]

Here is an extract from CPSA Booklet number 7

I would have thought that The Chief Referee should have known the rules, had a copy available to him in case of issues or disputes.

No need to consult with the DSG before the event, the rules are already written and in place.

ShOOTING POSITION

7.09 The competitor must remain positioned within the area of the shooting stand and is only

allowed to load cartridges into the gun within the confines of the stand. The gun will at all times be kept

pointing down the range and targets will only be called for after the Referee has given the signal to start.

In no case may a Competitor move to the stand before the preceding competitor has left the stand and it

is their turn to shoot.

7.10 Shooting stands shall be clearly defined squares no smaller than 0.91m (1 yard) and must be

within an enclosure. Enclosures must be a minimum height of 2m (2.18yd), to prevent any safety problems

when addressing or firing at any targets presented. The sides of any enclosure should not prevent the

Referee from having a clear view of the competitor.

The recommended dimensions of the enclosure follow the standard Sportrap enclosure size of:

1200mm x 1200mm (47.2in x 47.2in) area with a removable front bar at 600mm (23.62in) height (to allow

disabled competitors access and position) with enclosure sides to 2m (2.18yd) and a padded top bar

centrally above the pad. Front entry and variations on the size of the recommended enclosure will remain

acceptable provided the arc of fire is contained within the exclusion zone.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

nicola,the change to the rule about cages is aready there in booklet 7 section 8.3.

You are right these things should of gotten looked at during the planning stages ,again lack of comunication from cpsa i would expect.  

There was only two of us shooting the sitting class.

Getting around a greenfield site is easy with a bit of thought,when i send my letter to the cpsa i will sugest they buy a ramped trailer with wheelchair clamps fitted that can go behind any atv 4x4 or tractor,it can go to any major and be used if a wheelchair user needs it and a square plate with adjustable legs could be made to fit in cages to take away the slope, if needed (loads of grants available to sporting bodies to improve disabled acces to sport)if we had this and a planning stage inspection by one of us all would be good.

Yes Paul that would be great but I have no idea how much they cost?

 

[** Pending Removal **]

I think ...for what it is worth...for the future.....that it will be a good idea to consult with the DSG, just like any other organisation involved in any majors, to find out layout access and also how many disabled shooters will want or are likely to attend. That way proper planning can be achieved to meet all expectations where it is humanly possible.

Like i have said before sporting is always going to be the hardest discipline to help at. 

I am sure that if anyone had told EJS about the bars on sportrap needing to be removable...they would have made them that way.

 

[Bryn12]

Flat trailers with a ramp are pretty cheap ask any sheep farmer. Logic, QuadX, Portequip, Ifor Williams should all have something suitable or easily adaptable to suit, doubt if they'd cost more than £1k, handy for moving traps, clays and other stuff around the ground as well.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Flat trailers with a ramp are pretty cheap ask any sheep farmer. Logic, QuadX, Portequip, Ifor Williams should all have something suitable or easily adaptable to suit, doubt if they'd cost more than £1k, handy for moving traps, clays and other stuff around the ground as well.

Brilliant idea.