fast or slow

[Jay]

I am interested for purposes of research in anyone that has changed or tried to change there natural style from composing and focusing before or during the gun mount and calling for target very soon after the mount to mounting the gun fully then composing and focusing before calling for target. Any input such as tried it and boy did it make a difference or tried it could not hit a barn door or tried it it and it worked but took 6 months to perfect, that is the kind of info I am looking for.

Here's my experience in style changes if it's any help.

My natural style has always been to mount, compose, focus, and call, however one of my previous coaches got me to shoot almost as soon as I mounted the gun and it worked briefly, but I soon returned to my usual routine for the following main reasons:

• Fatigue - my eyes got tired quicker and couldn't settle them properly sometimes in later rounds resulting in ruining an otherwise good performance (E.g 24, 25, 22, 16!) I think because there is more cumulative effort of the eyes required in this method;
• My Timing - for some reason I had greater awareness of the slight variations in target speeds, which I would rather not have;
• I think it's important to ensure that the barrels only move when I know I can see that target properly and this method challenged me in that area;

I'm now back shooting in my natural method and am very comfortable with it with no coach. Yet ! .

It is an individual thing though and I hope whatever you choose works out for you.  

 

[Wonko the Sane]

I've found that as I've gotten older (way older) I've had to take more time than the .002sec I used to take to settle in before calling for the target.  In particular, older eyes take more time to crank the focus out to a proper point after putzing around loading/closing the gun and lifting the thing up.  And older brains sometimes forget the bit about the eyes and reminds the operator that shooting doesn't get easier thru time.

JMO of course

Charlie

 

[Jay]

I've noticed there's a lot of Analising going on in this forum, am I in the right place? . :haha:

 

[RobertBeard]

Now there's an echo bouncing around!

 

[ips]

Squirrel and wonko

Both make points i can relate to. I have shot in this way for 28 yrs and have had success with it until the last few years when i seem to have suffered from lack of consistency. Maybe its age catching up and i can no longer rely on an instinctive style, whatever the reason i feel like i need to change something to recover some consistency.

 

[Jay]

Squirrel and wonko

Both make points i can relate to. I have shot in this way for 28 yrs and have had success with it until the last few years when i seem to have suffered from lack of consistency. Maybe its age catching up and i can no longer rely on an instinctive style, whatever the reason i feel like i need to change something to recover some consistency.

Just some ideas here.

Sounds like you need to take an introspective look at everything in your game as I wouldn't jump to changing your style if it's worked well so far. There could be several reasons for your inconsistency such as an underlying and undetected medical condition, equipment, even gunfit. Have you had a new stock fitted, a thicker pad, or have you lost weight? Most people lose weight in their face first. Do you use computer screens a lot more these days? Maybe cut that down and get earlier nights especially before a comp.

I would begin by identifying the date at which the inconsistency began and try to analyse the pattern and identify any common denominators.

 

[ips]

Well fair points no weight gain or loss as for other possible reasons well age and eye sight deteriorating maybe but mainly i think the problem stems from a particularly bad episode of sciatica about 5 yrs ago which followed a neck related problem due to a fencing injury (swords not posts) have suffered with sciatica since i was 21 but that was a very bad one that lasted about a year it made me change my stance more upright than usual and with hind sight maybe speeded me up even more so i wasn't holding gun up any longer than necessary. Also tried a few different guns namely a couple of high rib then big holes were dug. I can still shoot very good scores but not consistently, definitely think i need to re-evaluate and change to a slower more controlled technique. I will report back over the coming weeks as to how things progress.

Cheers

 

[no.1topdog]

I shoot better when i am fat.....just saying....

That's interesting you should say that as you always seem to be at your optimum "fighting" weight in all your publicity photos.

Do you have your agent airbrush them for you?  :biggrin:

 

[Dog Tyred]

Have tried the mount and instant call technique a few times but doesn't seem to work for me. I've settled into the 'mount, pause, pause a bit longer, call because this is getting rediculous technique'

It sometimes seem like an age but in reality its usually two to three seconds between being settled and calling the target.

Some sporting shots I have seen shooting DTL (for a bit of practise) at my local ground call for the target before the gun is even in the shoulder, treating it like a sporting target (call, mount, bang). I would add with varying levels of success!

DT

 

[ips]

Greg

yes I think the mount call bang technique is flawed long term. There are days (like the other week when we shot together) that it all falls into place but its difficult to replicate week in week out, at least it is these days for me. Only a couple of top OT shooters have ever shot that way and even Fernandez who is the one of note has slowed right down and he is still young.

 

[ips]

•Fatigue - my eyes got tired quicker and couldn't settle them properly sometimes in later rounds resulting in ruining an otherwise good performance (E.g 24, 25, 22, 16!) I think because there is more cumulative effort of the eyes required in this method;

•My Timing - for some reason I had greater awareness of the slight variations in target speeds, which I would rather not have;

•I think it's important to ensure that the barrels only move when I know I can see that target properly and this method challenged me in that area;

Jay

I can relate to all of the above absolutely, in fact it sounds like you wrote it directly for me, everything you say is spot on and I have known it for a number of years however as a stubborn old git I have become fixated with the "its the only way I can shoot" explanation. But time for a change so watch this space.

Cheers

 

[philpot]

Well fair points no weight gain or loss as for other possible reasons well age and eye sight deteriorating maybe but mainly i think the problem stems from a particularly bad episode of sciatica about 5 yrs ago which followed a neck related problem due to a fencing injury (swords not posts) have suffered with sciatica since i was 21 but that was a very bad one that lasted about a year it made me change my stance more upright than usual and with hind sight maybe speeded me up even more so i wasn't holding gun up any longer than necessary. Also tried a few different guns namely a couple of high rib then big holes were dug. I can still shoot very good scores but not consistently, definitely think i need to re-evaluate and change to a slower more controlled technique. I will report back over the coming weeks as to how things progress.

Cheers

 As a chap who has suffered with back complaints for years, I can relate to your comments very well. About 15 years ago, whilst shooting and having sciatica, my long time shooting partner said that I had developed a stance which had me very slightly leaning to one side and that my gun and head was not perfectly level anymore. My scores were very inconsistant and although I only shot sporting then where the stance is not always so easy to notice because of the ground you are standing on, it certainly had an effect. 

A short while later I went in for surgery and no longer have such problems, just a poor trap shooter now ( not quite true ).

The point I am making is that we can't always see the stance/method we have but others sometimes can which in turn gives us the opportunity to address those issues. I know from another post Ian that you don't do coaching but perhaps a trusted friend can stand behind you to form an opinion to  feed back to you at the end of a round which in turn will give you some usefull information. Just a thought 

Phil

 

[** Pending Removal **]

That's interesting you should say that as you always seem to be at your optimum "fighting" weight in all your publicity photos.

Do you have your agent airbrush them for you?  :biggrin:

I can happily say that I have never had a publicity photo yet....and it will stay that way.

Can't help snappers though.....

 

[ips]

Cheers Phil

Thanks for reply good to know I am not the only one who has suffered from sciatica

You are spot on re-coaching I only trust about 4 peoples opinion and they are shooters who know my style well. I have a good friend already booked to give an opinion, on payment of tea and full english

PS- He doesn't know yet that's all he is getting so sshhhh don't let on.

 

[Les53]

Cheers Phil

Thanks for reply good to know I am not the only one who has suffered from sciatica

You are spot on re-coaching I only trust about 4 peoples opinion and they are shooters who know my style well. I have a good friend already booked to give an opinion, on payment of tea and full english

PS- He doesn't know yet that's all he is getting so sshhhh don't let on.

Just wait until you read the book before you make too many changes Ian. k:

 

[ips]

Les

Not turned up yet but I haven't posted me cash either.

 

[Les53]

Les

Not turned up yet but I haven't posted me cash either.

Mine going in the post today mate.

 

[Wonko the Sane]

OK - here's another approach.  Speed simple may not be the issue here.  When you slow down (or speed up for that matter) you very likely to not maintain the same cadence within the setup sequence.  Is it really all slower or is it slowfastfastslowslowpull?  Examining the relative time components in an even way objective manner is bound to reveal some discrepancies that should be as easily rectified.  and then practice of course to burn it in.  And are you at the pull-kill part or still goofing w/ the eyes when you feel like it's time to call for the target?  Ageing shooters can easily fall into the trap of calling for the target because it feels like it's time to do that and then shooting maybe a bit premature because it felt like it should be time to shoot.

just a thot anyway.  My reasons centered on recovering from two spine surgeries and as a consequence I know I've slowed the whole process down but that may not be necessary.  Or .....................?

 

[ips]

Ageing shooters can easily fall into the trap of calling for the target because it feels like it's time to do that and then shooting maybe a bit premature because it felt like it should be time to shoot.

Wonko

I suppose its partly that in a way.

Firstly.

I too use the term "cadence" a lot in shooting as it goes back to my Fencing days when cadence was a very important aspect I believe it plays a major, if not miss understood part of shooting also.

You a fencing man Mr wonko ???

Anyway, let me try to explain.

My pre shot routine / setup and indeed final act of calling for target and taking the shot is all in one (or at least feels that way) movement, therefore mental preparation or focus is required before the start, then were off into closing gun mounting gun calling for target taking shot. I now realise that the problem lies in when something is not right or something distracts or the target release is not as expected this throws the timing right out the window as the "cadence" of the gun mount dictates the call of the target. This method has worked very well for me in the past all be it with the occasional disaster but for some reason lately it doesn't feel quite as efficient a style for reasons eluded to in earlier posts. So a more controlled version is required.

 

[jwpzx9r]

Ian I am probably going to say something that is very obvious In my opinion the shooter most likely to consistently shoot good scores will be the one who has the ability to faithfully repeat their setup in terms of time taken and position of body and gun assuming of course they have a good positive mental approach. It goes without saying that if you cannot repeat your set up the chances are you will be erratic. I do not think time is critical if you do the same thing every time but I do think you have a better chance of reproducing set up if a little bit of time and thought goes into the process, on the other hand you can over think things can't you !