Gun Fit - Chicken and the Egg

[StuFish]

Hi All,

I'm new to shooting by a factor of a few months and I have been reading allot and it seems the foundation of good shooting and finding the limits of a gun and your skill is related to a good gun fit. From the perspective of a beginner the advice seems to be that while fit is important until you develop a shooting style some of the fine tuning that a good gun fit provides may not be realised in its entirety. There is a question in here honest!

So my question is, can I simply and easily compared a set of body dimensions to a stock length, drop etc that will allow me to purchase a gun second had (privately) that is a close approximation to my fitting requirements and so would require limited alteration later on? I'm sure its not that simple by it doesn't hurt to ask.

I have seen fitting session you can pay for with a gun smith but, I have assumed this would require you to already own and have the gun? Hence is it best to have the gun and then the fit or a approximated fit and then the gun?

Many thanks

Stuart

 

[Will Hewland]

Keep it simple. Go to a decent gunshop who have staff that know something about gun fit. When you have found a gun of brand and price that you want, (good used Beretta or Browning etc..) get the staff to see you mount it. They will hopefully make you alter your hold until it feels really weird to you, but is what you will end up doing. (Chest over your front foot, stomach back, shooting shoulder raised, head forward (not leaned over) on to the stock etc..)

If this gun does not fit - and the fix is not cheap and simple such as a length change- then place it back in the rack and try another one.

As you say, it's a bit approximate at the early stage. Most agree that gun fit is NOT CRITICAL to your shooting. A reasonable fit is 99% good enough IMO. People charging lots for gun fitting and alterations do however feel its important. (Mainly to their wallets).

 

[StuFish]

thanks Will, kinda what I was expecting. I think I will head to Chris Potters its only an hour from me and seem to have a good selection and access to some well respected gun fitters.

Thanks

Stuart

 

[Skeet UK]

Hi All,

I'm new to shooting by a factor of a few months and I have been reading allot and it seems the foundation of good shooting and finding the limits of a gun and your skill is related to a good gun fit. From the perspective of a beginner the advice seems to be that while fit is important until you develop a shooting style some of the fine tuning that a good gun fit provides may not be realised in its entirety. There is a question in here honest!

So my question is, can I simply and easily compared a set of body dimensions to a stock length, drop etc that will allow me to purchase a gun second had (privately) that is a close approximation to my fitting requirements and so would require limited alteration later on? I'm sure its not that simple by it doesn't hurt to ask.

I have seen fitting session you can pay for with a gun smith but, I have assumed this would require you to already own and have the gun? Hence is it best to have the gun and then the fit or a approximated fit and then the gun?

Many thanks

Stuart

Hi Stuart.

Firstly, Nicola (Tinkerbell) previously posted an image that the Italians use, to calculate suitable stock dimensions...if she is reading this, hopefully she won't mind posting it back up again.

Secondly.  Clever is right.  So long as the fit is not restrictive or forces you to do something weird, and puts everything roughly in the right place...this will do well enough, to begin with.

So, what sort of shape and size are you? 

If you are 5 ft, and 7 stone or 6'7 and wear a 53 inch jacket...then you may need special considerations.

A gun with an adjustable comb, will always be a very good idea.  It can resolve so many issues in a twist of an Allen key...so long as you can resist the urge to fiddle with it all the time.

Length of pull, is easy enough to adjust with different pad thicknesses.

EDIT: You will do well at Potters.  South African Steve (as I call him!) is a great bloke, with a good eye for gun fit!

 

[StuFish]

Hi Stuart.

Firstly, Nicola (Tinkerbell) previously posted an image that the Italians use, to calculate suitable stock dimensions...if she is reading this, hopefully she won't mind posting it back up again.

Secondly.  Clever is right.  So long as the fit is not restrictive or forces you to do something weird, and puts everything roughly in the right place...this will do well enough, to begin with.

So, what sort of shape and size are you? 

If you are 5 ft, and 7 stone or 6'7 and wear a 53 inch jacket...then you may need special considerations.

A gun with an adjustable comb, will always be a very good idea.  It can resolve so many issues in a twist of an Allen key...so long as you can resist the urge to fiddle with it all the time.

Length of pull, is easy enough to adjust with different pad thicknesses.

HI Skeet,

thankfully I'm as average as they come 6FT flat Just over 14 Stone 42 Regular (I think)

its not this is it?

If so would put me just under 15 for LOP?

 

[Skeet UK]

Nope, its in Spanish or Italian and shows you every conceivable dimension!

But yeah, about 15 inches.  Most guns will be about that, then you can add or remove length by changing the recoil pad...easy as pi$$.

The more difficult bit, is getting the right comb height and cast.  This is why I would suggest an adjustable stocked gun.

A purist may not like an adjustable comb, but for the rest of us, it is a godsend.  It also allows for weight changes, and also changes of style as you become a better shooter.

What many (many) people do; is buy a gun that they can afford and sort of fits, but wont spend the money to make it fit, or baulk at the idea of having the stock chopped, or bent or whatever.  They then have issues with their shooting. 

An adjustable comb pretty much negates most issues you could have.

Do you know what sort if budget you have?

Have you a gun/brand in mind?

 

[Mark Jones]

As Will said 99% good enough will do at this stage. The gun shop if any good should help but I would much prefer to arrange a trial at a shooting school. Any competent coach should fit a gun for you in a short session for not much money but generally length of pull done first 2-3 fingers between nose and trigger hand thumb joint then comb height set. Again as said you need to be stood correctly but you would get shown this. Stick on comb raisers are cheap, removable and effective, coming in different heights. Enough to start with but don't wait as bad habits caused by bad gun fit are hard to unlearn......I should know! Good luck and enjoy shooting where your looking

 

[urbane1]

Is an adjustable pad an alternative to an adjustable comb?

 

[Mark Jones]

Is an adjustable pad an alternative to an adjustable comb?

Depends on ur neck length and cheekbone

 

[Skeet UK]

Is an adjustable pad an alternative to an adjustable comb?

As Mark says; potentially, but certainly not "as good".  The best adjustable pad I know of, is the ISIS one by Recoil Systems.

 

[Dodge]

Get something that feels right and is comfortable to shoot and then worry about fine tuning later on. I've been shooting around 2 years and not had my guns fitted properly and have seen my scores progress quite nicely. When I plateau I'll invest properly in getting something that fits me and my style. 

 

[StuFish]

Nope, its in Spanish or Italian and shows you every conceivable dimension!

But yeah, about 15 inches.  Most guns will be about that, then you can add or remove length by changing the recoil pad...easy as pi$$.

The more difficult bit, is getting the right comb height and cast.  This is why I would suggest an adjustable stocked gun.

A purist may not like an adjustable comb, but for the rest of us, it is a godsend.  It also allows for weight changes, and also changes of style as you become a better shooter.

What many (many) people do; is buy a gun that they can afford and sort of fits, but wont spend the money to make it fit, or baulk at the idea of having the stock chopped, or bent or whatever.  They then have issues with their shooting. 

An adjustable comb pretty much negates most issues you could have.

Do you know what sort if budget you have?

Have you a gun/brand in mind?

Thanks all some really good solid advice here! 

I have been shooting with a Beretta while learning and have found the gun and OK. I must have had a short stock one lesson because I found a bit flappy to shoulder and keeping my cheek on the comb also felt very protracted.

As for the gun and budget, I think an older second hand Baretta is on the cards one of the 68x's. My budget is up to £1200 but, I'm willing spend anther £500 (up to) later on to have the stock either replaced or modified. Tim Greenwood seems like a good option if you can find time in his diary!

I'm gona have a read around the forum and see which gun shops people recommend and take a trip to Potters. 

Thx Stuart

 

[Skeet UK]

Thanks all some really good solid advice here! 

I have been shooting with a Beretta while learning and have found the gun and OK. I must have had a short stock one lesson because I found a bit flappy to shoulder and keeping my cheek on the comb also felt very protracted.

As for the gun and budget, I think an older second hand Baretta is on the cards one of the 68x's. My budget is up to £1200 but, I'm willing spend anther £500 (up to) later on to have the stock either replaced or modified. Tim Greenwood seems like a good option if you can find time in his diary!

I'm gona have a read around the forum and see which gun shops people recommend and take a trip to Potters. 

Thx Stuart

You are quite well placed really. Several decent gunshops near you.

May I suggest (as will others probably) that you look at Caesar Guerini guns?  Very Beretta like and huge HUGE value for money, great quality.

I would be inclined to forget about £500 towards gun fit, you could almost get a new stock made to fit for that!!  Spend that on the gun.

You are fortunately, very near Winchester and our very own Richard and Tanya Faulds, at Owls Lodge.

http://www.owlslodgeshootingschool.co.uk/contact-us.html

They are Guerini specialists too and would be happy to help you out.

 

[AW13]

I went to Chris Potters and told them I wanted to buy a good quality 2nd hand gun of a good make and had no preconceptions on make. They got me to try about 6 or 8 different guns mainly Beretta, Browning and Miroku until i found mine that fitted me very well and did not need adjustment. They took their time and 'educated' me on gun fit, asked what i would be shooting [sporting, trap etc] whether I would shoot game etc.  It was facinating to see the difference between the fit on the guns.

I am 6'2" nearly 100kg [15.75 stone ish] and long arms, that directed them towards Browning and Miroku, not sure why now but I now have a great gun and it has given me a lot of enjoyment.

I thought their service was excellent.  

Good luck with your search.

 

[Bryn12]

Just back from collecting my gold 525, can't believe how good it feels with everything coming perfectly into position, the grade1's stock is now getting the same treatment, just have to learn how to consistently put the lead in the right place now but the 2hr Skeet lesson helped go a long long way with that as well.

Pretty much everything as said above. The Barretta wasn't for me but I liked the Miroku but the forend just didn't feel right, the Browning B525 felt right but not perfect now after fitting it just feels 'ooooh!!' as soon as I shoulder it. So find something that's 99% there work with it a bit until your mount is sound and consistent then get the last little bit of fitting done.

 

[Doctor Lecter]

comb height is critical to achieve accurate sight picture  , simon willmore at doveridge guns fits adjustable combs for approximately £200 ish    if need be , top job too .   

 

[StuFish]

So just a bit of feedback, often these threads dead end with no real out come: 

I went to Chris Potters in the end and they were great tired alot of guns they spent more than 2 hours with me. Something I will say I expected to come home with a Beretta but, ended up with a Browning, I'm glad I went in with no Brand pre-conception as this has worked in my favour. Buying your first gun is a little like Harry Potter, in which the wand picks you and it seem its so with the gun also. I ended up with a Browning 725 Sports gun, I was able to consistently mount the gun in the right position and far more so than any other gun I tried. Even my instructor "Chip Smith" who looked in puzzlement at the Browning coming out of my gun bag had to admit it works for me, which really reflects the advice on this forum from gun, to cartridge. If it works for you use it!

Wanted to thank everyone who chipped in all the good advice has help keep me interested, shooting and I was even luck enough to be with put with a great team on a shooting day and we walked away with some glass after winning the 100 bird flush.

 

[westley]

Yep, you really NEED an adjustable comb, I have yet to encounter any NOVICE shooter and believe me when I say that I have encountered a great number,  who have bought a gun with one of these damned adjustable combs and NOT been a constant 'comb fiddler' to the detriment of their shooting. The adjustable comb does have it's uses, to someone who KNOWS what they are doing, a bit like multi choked guns really. I have seen some novice shooters adjusting the damned comb, halfway through a shoot. So their shooting goes from bad to worse. If they spent more time on stance, gun mount and target line perception, and less on messing with the gun, they would have a great deal more success.  

 

[StuFish]

Hi Westley,

Its interesting I know what your saying and I might look to have one fitted via a stock modification at a later date. Everyone who has tried my gun comments on how high the comb as it stands, when I try other peoples guns after using mine I find the comb really low and not uncomfortable but it feels like I have to excessively go to the gun when mounting but, with my gun I feel like the gun and I come equal amounts on the mount. It seems when I look around everyone has raised there comb in one way or another. None of this probably makes sense.

I have been looking for a next step to take, I was thinking about having a few Skeet lessons to try that out maybe at the same time I will look at a proper gun fit session.

thanks

Sty