How many shotguns

[Wonko the Sane]

I swear the things breed in the cabinet. 

My wife once suggested the same thing about the guitar amp speakers that seem to accumulate

 

[El Spavo]

My wife once suggested the same thing about the guitar amp speakers that seem to accumulate

Ooh, now you're talking! My pride and joy is an Ampeg VL-1002 head with straight 4x12 and slant 2x12 celestion vintage cabs. Lovely! 

 

[El Spavo]

None. Yes NONE, not nine, NONE! Seriously... I now “own” a F16 and two F3’s all kept for me at grounds/RFD‘S until my license arrives.

A year ago you were thinking of which to buy as a first gun and concerned a new F16 might be a bit too pricey at around 3-4k, so how did you jump to owning THREE Blasers, two of which are the more expensive F3's??! :sarcastic:

 

[Lloyd]

A year ago you were thinking of which to buy as a first gun and concerned a new F16 might be a bit too pricey at around 3-4k, so how did you jump to owning THREE Blasers, two of which are the more expensive F3's??! :sarcastic:

Umm...

 

[ColinD]

it was a very very bad itch

 

[Luke_(NL)]

Just one at present, but there are a few I'd like to own one day. I'm not in the UK though, so not part of the quoted average. 

Am filing for a second, as I'm getting a Beretta 686 special for use in the field. 12 Gauge, no wear, possibly an "L" as the wood looks pretty good. From what I can tell it was made in 1990 though, so I get to tell the lads I was seduced by a thirty year old Italian 

Mobil chokes, red fibre bead, the trap fore-end (standard on the 686 special, I think?) and it has the replaceable lock-parts. Closes like a vault and the barrels are smooth and the chokes were clean. No signs of use really, so pretty happy with it. Now hoping to get the paperwork sorted soon, but that is not very likely, Covid and all... 

 

[MartynB]

If It’s an L model , it should have the letter L on the bottom of the trigger guard . Berettas from the 80’s and 90’s are class guns  . This household has  had 686 ( sporter and game )  687,  682 ( sporter and trap ) and 682 gold from that era .
 

You’ve  made a good purchase . 

 

[Adam17]

I have 3 on my ticket currently... 

2xO/U & 1 semi auto.

Id like to get a SxS for some walked up shooting id like to do in the future, and a pump action - for no particular reason...

 

[Veryoverworked]

@ColinD 

Isn’t just a little bit ironic that any criminal worth their salt is hardly likely to bother with complying with the law would go to the trouble to file for a SGC

The issue, I have no qualms disclosing as it’s a simple fact of life, my ex wife and I had over the years a tempestuous relationship. Six of one half a dozen of the other to be fair. The volume of our many disagreements over the course of a decade did on a couple of occasions attract the attention of joe Public and subsequently a visit from a local PC.

Their main concern was raised when I was asked if I thought my ex would male spurious claims about my waving a shotgun around and given the volatility in the past and wanting to answer honesty, I had to say that I couldn’t rule that possibility out, this further checks about the ex and the children had to take place. 

The ensuing staffing issues and subsequently Covid just added immensely to the delay. 
 

to give the FO credit, he did say give the time interval my application would [once the backlog of renewals are cleared] be top of the pile. 

This reminds me of a cautionary piece of advice about lodging your guns with an RFD if you are going through a divorce or messy break-up. I did hear of a lady who accused her estranged husband of waving a shotgun around and making threats. The Police were very quick to respond, and it could have been the end of this chaps Certificate - one sniff of anything like this can be a reason to pull someone's licence. However the chap in question had the foresight to lodge all his weapons with a local RFD and produced the paperwork to the Police to prove it wasn't him.

Anecdotal or not, it's sage advice.

I read recently that the average number of shotguns held on a SGC in the UK is 2.4.  This means that assuming a standard bell curve distribution the majority of people have 2 or 3 shotguns.  I used to have 2 but went down to 1 as I found I was really only shooting the 1 but an acquaintance of mine has 8 so I was wondering what you all have?  Is 2 to 3 what most people have or is this average made up of extremes like me and this other guy?  

Thinking about it has made me wonder if I should buy another one though 

"How many guns do you have?"

The answer is dependent on whether you know my wife. Walls have ears you know.

 

[Lloyd]

This reminds me of a cautionary piece of advice about lodging your guns with an RFD if you are going through a divorce or messy break-up. I did hear of a lady who accused her estranged husband of waving a shotgun around and making threats. The Police were very quick to respond, and it could have been the end of this chaps Certificate - one sniff of anything like this can be a reason to pull someone's licence. However the chap in question had the foresight to lodge all his weapons with a local RFD and produced the paperwork to the Police to prove it wasn't him.

My guns are all with RFD’s even though I have a safe at home. The FO did say that my grant may be conditional on having the guns  kept at RFD/s and /or another licence holder, though he also said this would likely only be a temporary measure, for perhaps one or two years.

To be fair, it hasn’t stopped me shooting. It does make it a little more expensive to always have a coach on hand, but the upside of that is I’m learning more from someone who has the knowledge and experience to impart

 

[ColinD]

My guns are all with RFD’s even though I have a safe at home. The FO did say that my grant may be conditional on having the guns  kept at RFD/s and /or another licence holder, though he also said this would likely only be a temporary measure, for perhaps one or two years.

Does that mean you can have possession of the shotgun when out shooting, but not at your home address.

What would be the point of this Lloyd, does that mean you can collect the shotgun go to a shoot with it and then bring it back to be locked away until you want it again.

 

[Lloyd]

Does that mean you can have possession of the shotgun when out shooting, but not at your home address.

What would be the point of this Lloyd, does that mean you can collect the shotgun go to a shoot with it and then bring it back to be locked away until you want it again.

Yep, that pretty much sums it up. It would mean I don’t have to to continue to pay for coaching or a caddied round, but I’d be restricted to grounds where I have guns stored which is my current mode of operation or a willing SGC holder to take to another grounds for say a comp, or pay for multiple RFD transfers.

It would be an inconvenience for sure but it’s not the end of the world. I’ve faced far greater challenges to be honest. 

 

[Will Hewland]

A guy I know had his certificate withdrawn. He’s very well funded and his gun cost £18k. He gave up competition shooting which he was really into and the gun lives at a shooting ground where he goes for a practice. 
 

If I didn’t have a certificate for any reason I would buy several near-identical (reasonably priced) guns and store them at favoured grounds. 

 

[Peteri]

A guy I know had his certificate withdrawn. He’s very well funded and his gun cost £18k. He gave up competition shooting which he was really into and the gun lives at a shooting ground where he goes for a practice. 
 

If I didn’t have a certificate for any reason I would buy several near-identical (reasonably priced) guns and store them at favoured grounds. 

It's not just storage though, you then have to either have lessons or caddied rounds with a SGC holder - can be a bit of a pain

 

[Will Hewland]

It's not just storage though, you then have to either have lessons or caddied rounds with a SGC holder - can be a bit of a pain

Would it work if you were on a squad with a ref? I would think so. 

 

[Peteri]

Would it work if you were on a squad with a ref? I would think so. 

If the ref has a SGC and agrees to act as the 'supervisor', could be sticky tho

 

[Lloyd]

It's not just storage though, you then have to either have lessons or caddied rounds with a SGC holder - can be a bit of a pain

The scenario here is having conditional SGC.

You’re absolutely correct, as a non SGC holder, you have to have an SGC holder with you,  either that a coach for a lesson, a caddied round or a mate; providing of course the grounds are permitted to allow it and you have their permission, which I believe now has to be in writing.

On the other hand, a granted SGC with the condition that ones guns must not be kept at home requires a mate who has the gun signed onto their license who will take it to a grounds for you, or you store it at the grounds and/or do succession of RFD transfers. Or as @Will Hewland said, have multiple identical guns... I’m working on it  

With this granted but conditional SGC I could shoot a round without being accompanied by another SGC holder and I’d be allowed to take a non SGC holder with me with grounds permission. It simply means handing back the gun for storage.

Now for me, I never intended to keep the guns at home except when absolutely necessary, if say needing an overnight storage at home between competitions at locations too far apart to get back in time to store the gun. My reasoning for this is personal security. I feel much happier that my children and partner are just that little bit safer if the gun isn’t at home. I live in a large town and whilst I do have a really good incognito bag if in the event I do (and am allowed) to move guns from place to place. Being kept in storage is a happier place for me.

Thus far storage isn’t costing me anything and my gun (F16) gets cleaned free of charge also. One of the F3’s is with the RFD that sold me the gun while I await a stock and another is held by a friend. It’s a bit like a car or a company, the owner and the keeper do not have to be one and the same

 

[Peteri]

The scenario here is having conditional SGC.

You’re absolutely correct, as a non SGC holder, you have to have an SGC holder with you,  either that a coach for a lesson, a caddied round or a mate; providing of course the grounds are permitted to allow it and you have their permission, which I believe now has to be in writing.

On the other hand, a granted SGC with the condition that ones guns must not be kept at home requires a mate who has the gun signed onto their license who will take it to a grounds for you, or you store it at the grounds and/or do succession of RFD transfers. Or as @Will Hewland said, have multiple identical guns... I’m working on it  

With this granted but conditional SGC I could shoot a round without being accompanied by another SGC holder and I’d be allowed to take a non SGC holder with me with grounds permission. It simply means handing back the gun for storage.

Now for me, I never intended to keep the guns at home except when absolutely necessary, if say needing an overnight storage at home between competitions at locations too far apart to get back in time to store the gun. My reasoning for this is personal security. I feel much happier that my children and partner are just that little bit safer if the gun isn’t at home. I live in a large town and whilst I do have a really good incognito bag if in the event I do (and am allowed) to move guns from place to place. Being kept in storage is a happier place for me.

Thus far storage isn’t costing me anything and my gun (F16) gets cleaned free of charge also. One of the F3’s is with the RFD that sold me the gun while I await a stock and another is held by a friend. It’s a bit like a car or a company, the owner and the keeper do not have to be one and the same

Thanks for the clarification, I'm in the same boat - living in Soho, walking around with a gun isn't recommended!

Mind you since I've been quoted 6 months wait for a grant, I'll have a while to ponder!

 

[MartynB]

Would it work if you were on a squad with a ref? I would think so. 

The issue that I would have is

a) does the shooter have to hold a certificate to be covered by his shooting insurance ? 

b ) does the referee have any liability in the supervision of an unlicensed shooter , that is , is he a competent person for that purpose ? 

Just holding their own certificate does not make a person competent to supervise  .  

c)  , Morally,  why should the ref be responsible for the actions of someone who can’t pass the criteria required to hold a SGC ? 

 

[Luke_(NL)]

The issue that I would have is

a) does the shooter have to hold a certificate to be covered by his shooting insurance ? 

b ) does the referee have any liability in the supervision of an unlicensed shooter , that is , is he a competent person for that purpose ? 

Just holding their own certificate does not make a person competent to supervise  .  

c)  , Morally,  why should the ref be responsible for the actions of someone who can’t pass the criteria required to hold a SGC ? 

While I don't think that B and C apply to the situation described above (a conditional license/certificate is granted - but the conditions state the guns cannot be stored at home), you do raise valid questions. In the Netherlands, outside of introduction-type events or training at your own club with a club gun, you're simply not allowed to wield a gun without a license. Ever.  

The liability is an interesting point, because the referee would then obviously take a degree of risk, for which there is no reward. Why would anyone accept that? Case-law here that states there has to be a rationale for an assumption of liability by a private person, especially for circumstances they shouldn't have to expect. (I.e. signing a 'all participation is at your own risk' waiver doesn't mean you can't blame an organiser who is negligent in not-mitigating or creating risk). 

Both legally and morally, assigning someone a supervisory role should not mean they have a risk of liability or culpability if the supervised person goes off the rails through no fault of the supervisor.  

EDIT: Re-reading above, the TLDR should say: Don't assign risk (or blame) where responsibilities aren't rewarded.