Invector DS Choke Pattern Pictures

[farmer7]

One thing I am not getting here, and forgive me if I am being stupid   is where are you pointing your gun? My concern would not be picking a part of the pattern and saying that is greatest concentration of shot so I am going to centre my 30" circle there. I would be more concerned about how the actual shot pattern related to where I was shooting my gun. In other words if you were pointing your gun at roughly the centre of that board then your gun is shooting slightly high and to the right of the centre ... that would be of far more relevance to me than the actual pattern they way you are describing it here... or I am misinterpreting you... in which case sorry.

 See above and for trap 1/2 and full is perfect... regardless of the 3/4 and full brigade say a 1/2 choke will break any trap target at first barrel distance even with a 24g load.

I am actually aiming at a mark on the old oil tank! It does actually shoot quite straight though when it's still - it's just it's been blowing a gale here for the last few days!

I know it shoots high, that's how I like it and set it up.

 

[Wonko the Sane]

I have never seen full choke in any of the guns I've had/have, and that means up to a measured 0.042", "blow a pattern".  Mr. Winston has as well demonstrated that increasing the degree of choke does nothing but increase the center density.  And that was all determined by some extensive and analytical testing as John pointed out.  As John also pointed out, obsessing about imaginary "facts" may be counter-productive.  

I have no idea where those choke dimension posted came from but they are not remotely reflective of traditional designation/dimension assignments from anyone.  If those are in fact actual dimensions then you may want to consider an alternate source as what you have can hardly be of much use.

Want a confidence builder?  Be like me.  I can look at the # on a Perazzi or Beretta choke tube and know within a few thou of what it will measure and a perfectly workable knowing of its performance parameters.  I mean, it's a shotgun - remember?

 

[Geordieboy]

I have never seen full choke in any of the guns I've had/have, and that means up to a measured 0.042", "blow a pattern".  Mr. Winston has as well demonstrated that increasing the degree of choke does nothing but increase the center density.  And that was all determined by some extensive and analytical testing as John pointed out.  As John also pointed out, obsessing about imaginary "facts" may be counter-productive.  

I have no idea where those choke dimension posted came from but they are not remotely reflective of traditional designation/dimension assignments from anyone.  If those are in fact actual dimensions then you may want to consider an alternate source as what you have can hardly be of much use.

Want a confidence builder?  Be like me.  I can look at the # on a Perazzi or Beretta choke tube and know within a few thou of what it will measure and a perfectly workable knowing of its performance parameters.  I mean, it's a shotgun - remember?

Highly un-scientific I know, but I shot several Sporting shoots (To the tune of 400+ shells), with LF and F.  By far and away, in my Perazzi the LF was devastating.  The Full, much less so.  Clays broke into 3 pieces.  I knocked lumps out of the darn things with full every time.  So Blown or not?  I would suggest that my pattern becomes raggy.  I won't stick my gun on a plate to find out.  I just know that LF is awesome and Full is s#%te in my Perazzi.  So it sits in the cupboard.  Interestingly enough, the patterns I am getting with my 5/8 and Fiocchi Officials 8.5's are giving me more and more confidence at longer and longer ranges.  

Find out what suits you and go with it.  

 

[farmer7]

here is my take on this.

1. Factory DS chokes come in rather "loose" measurements acording to "normal" constriction measurements:

Full = .o38
LF = .o26
IM = .015
M = .009
LM = .007
IC = .002

I have never seen full choke in any of the guns I've had/have, and that means up to a measured 0.042", "blow a pattern".  Mr. Winston has as well demonstrated that increasing the degree of choke does nothing but increase the center density.  And that was all determined by some extensive and analytical testing as John pointed out.  As John also pointed out, obsessing about imaginary "facts" may be counter-productive.  

I have no idea where those choke dimension posted came from but they are not remotely reflective of traditional designation/dimension assignments from anyone.  If those are in fact actual dimensions then you may want to consider an alternate source as what you have can hardly be of much use.

Want a confidence builder?  Be like me.  I can look at the # on a Perazzi or Beretta choke tube and know within a few thou of what it will measure and a perfectly workable knowing of its performance parameters.  I mean, it's a shotgun - remember?

If you're referring to FreeShots measurements above mine come out pretty close:

IC .002

LM .004

M .008

IM .012

LF .026

F .037

XF .042

So apart from Full and Extra Full all way less constriction than should be in them according to conventional measurements. They seem to pattern pretty well considering the lack of constriction in the first 5! 

 

[Hamster]

Highly un-scientific I know, but I shot several Sporting shoots (To the tune of 400+ shells), with LF and F.  By far and away, in my Perazzi the LF was devastating.  The Full, much less so.  Clays broke into 3 pieces.  I knocked lumps out of the darn things with full every time.  So Blown or not?  I would suggest that my pattern becomes raggy.  I won't stick my gun on a plate to find out.  I just know that LF is awesome and Full is s#%te in my Perazzi.  So it sits in the cupboard.  Interestingly enough, the patterns I am getting with my 5/8 and Fiocchi Officials 8.5's are giving me more and more confidence at longer and longer ranges.  

Find out what suits you and go with it.  

Get a mate to take them out and refit them blind without either he or you knowing which barrel has what choke fitted, it may just be that you are tackling the first barrel bird better or even that the POI may be slightly different from one tube to the next; more plausible than either is that you just don't like Full.

Admittedly I've never been a fan of Full myself but I have also never believed that they blow patterns, the shot to shot variation from true LF to F will be absolutely undetectable on targets and would take a whole day of patterning to prove on paper. 

My theory as to why Full does in fact produce more than its fair share of chips is that most of us kill most targets with the fringe of our patterns, this fringe is still mighty useful on a Mod but not so on a really tight pattern. 

 

[Geordieboy]

Get a mate to take them out and refit them blind without either he or you knowing which barrel has what choke fitted, it may just be that you are tackling the first barrel bird better or even that the POI may be slightly different from one tube to the next; more plausible than either is that you just don't like Full.

Admittedly I've never been a fan of Full myself but I have also never believed that they blow patterns, the shot to shot variation from true LF to F will be absolutely undetectable on targets and would take a whole day of patterning to prove on paper. 

My theory as to why Full does in fact produce more than its fair share of chips is that most of us kill most targets with the fringe of our patterns, this fringe is still mighty useful on a Mod but not so on a really tight pattern. 

Morning Hamster

I know what you're saying chap.  But Full, with my gun and shells is s%#te.  As I shoot registered, I've already proven what works and what doesn't....in my head.  And to that end......I really mean "What gives me confidence". 

So Full stays in the house. 

 

[Hamster]

Morning Hamster

I know what you're saying chap.  But Full, with my gun and shells is s%#te.  As I shoot registered, I've already proven what works and what doesn't....in my head.  And to that end......I really mean "What gives me confidence". 

So Full stays in the house. 

Yes I totally get that you don't get on with Full (generally neither do I), just saying that the reason is 99.9% likely to be  non "mechanical". 

If there is indeed a mechanical aspect to your Full chokes sh*teness then you owe it to yourself to at least buy another LF even without resorting to actually patterning the Full to see the difference. 

 

[Jonny English]

Josh brown did a pattern test with a fc geurini invictus with some large game cartridges when he was a teague and the 3/4 pattern was tighter and more even than the full choke with it, the full choke was blown to pooh rags, that was with large game loads though.

 

[Geordieboy]

Josh brown did a pattern test with a fc geurini invictus with some large game cartridges when he was a teague and the 3/4 pattern was tighter and more even than the full choke with it, the full choke was blown to pooh rags, that was with large game loads though.

Interesting!

 

[Wonko the Sane]

Admittedly I've never been a fan of Full myself but I have also never believed that they blow patterns, the shot to shot variation from true LF to F will be absolutely undetectable on targets and would take a whole day of patterning to prove on paper. 

My theory as to why Full does in fact produce more than its fair share of chips is that most of us kill most targets with the fringe of our patterns, this fringe is still mighty useful on a Mod but not so on a really tight pattern. 

++1

I suspect that would take far more than a day to prove 

FWIW I'll say again F chokes do not blow patterns - certain not in any Perazzi or Beretta I've ever put on paper.  AFA game loads go I patterned my fave Mirage pigeon gun (0.041" XF) years ago with 3 ¼ x 1 ¼ x 7 ½ Federal Gold Medal pigeon loads and at a measured 40yds there wasn't a space in there a mouse could get thru.  That barrel/load killed pigeons at the fence stone dead and that would be at something like 45+meters.  I've seen similar performance from all of my other Perazzi pigeon guns as well.  

Blown Patterns?!?!?!

 I don't think so!

 

[Jonny English]

Josh Browns results while at teague

3/4 choke 121 pellets

Full 93 pellets

in 30" circle at 50 yards.

 

[Oldblaster]

At some shoot l use Invector Plus 1/2 and 3/4, when necessary and find them very good, l once patterened them casually to see the difference and could not tell them apart! Practically just like 1/2 and 1/2 chokes. So l don't get caught up with numbers too much, but go for what works for you on the stand.

 

[AW13]

There are some very interesting comments above.

I was suprised by these numbers:

Full = .o38LF = .o26IM = .015M = .009LM = .007IC = .002

I found the following on the Browning site which also indicates that their choke designations are differing from my normal understanding of designation vs constriction.



The above suggests you need at least 1/2 & 3/4 for a sporting round and maybe even tighter. I have been shooting 1/4 & 1/2 in mine when using DS chokes, no wonder they felt too under choked.  Need to think about this

 

[Hamster]

Josh Browns results while at teague

3/4 choke 121 pellets

Full 93 pellets

in 30" circle at 50 yards.

View attachment 7428

View attachment 7429

That's hardly blown, it just means that that particular load doesn't keep as tight a pattern as it ought to with that load at that range, besides, to be truly representative you'd need to fire at least ten shots at a pattern plate, in reality that Full pattern will be every bit as effective in the real world, in other words (them missing pellets won't be too far away).

In clay shooting context the notion that Full choke blows patterns is just one of those casually spoken old wives tales. The odd Full choke may throw more open (than a 3/4) with the odd load, but in general they tend to be at least as tight as the looser choke. 

 

[jwpzx9r]

Game of two halfs above the top pattern is well left of centre and the bottom a little right  ... so my conclusion is that is the reason why the 3/4 is showing a better count the full choke is missing a lot of pellets to the left that should have been on the paper