ips does beating

[ips]

cheers BN, I think she would be ok off lead as she was reliably steady dogging in BUT I still have this fear that she goes all "red mist" on me when I least expect it and ruin a drive for my new keeper mate. Thing is she is so crap on a lead that its difficult to guage her level of steadiness as when lead goes on she morphs into a different dog, pulling, nose down on scent and deaf. The transition from small glorified walked up shoot to this one has been harder than I imagined.

ps

yes I have a similar command "leave it" and "gone now" following a flush.

 

[ips]

SEASON 2 SHOOT 5 SMALL SHOOT

nothing to report for first four drives other than heeling between drives was a bit loose, need to work on this before next season. She hunted close and responded to whistle command very well. Steady to the few flushes that she had.

5th DRIVE

unlike the other drives I put a lead on her while we walked up the edge of the wood to get in position, the other drives you can get positioned in the field and get straight to it. I only popped the lead on just to see if she still pulled as she does on big shoot. The answer was yes. Anyway we get in position I take lead off having told her to wait, she waited, we started and she legged it straight into cover and disappeared for a minute and a half, she found me and from then on worked very well.

i think one of two things caused this. Was it having her on a lead for the first time that changed her in some way, or i may have inadvertently said "get on" which she reads as a release command instead of my usual hand gesture to hunt close. I am not sure but it was very odd because up till (and indeed after that) then she was imo very very good.

Mrs ips tagged along and we all enjoyed a nice meal in our usual pub to end the day

 

[ips]

OUTSIDE DAY

Was really just the same as the small shoot as in walk one stand one, although we had walking guns as well. A really enjoyable day sixteen of us in two teams total bag 64 mainly phessie and partridge.

1st DRIVE
I was blanking in hedgerows and some bracken type cover as a walking gun. It was quite interesting and novel to be working the dog and looking out for possibility of a shot. Eze worked very well put lots of birds up some came my way but were very very low so no shots for me. We turned a corner close to the guns and she got in some very heavy cover were keeper and his wife were working there dogs, she disappeared into this for two minutes before deciding to return having ignored recall. With hindsight I should not have blown it because I knew she would ignore it and I knew she would come back once she emptied it of birds. I am still unsure when if ever I should just let her get on with it. ???

2nd DRIVE
I stood this one, I had a shot at a partridge but missed then a minute or so later I had an excellent first barrell woodcock which landed twenty feet behind me in a shallow stream. At the end of the drive I sent her out and she took some time working out this new scenario of retreiving from water but after some coaxing she delivered it to hand and released no problem with no signs of a hard mouth. I then sent her to retrieve a partridge that my neighbouring gun shot which she picked no problem.

3rd DRIVE
stood this one. Shot a pheasant. Shot at two more. Nothing to retrieve on this as already picked. I have noticed that eze is not too keen on sitting at a peg she appears to be quite concerned about gunshot from close proximity but shows no signs of being gunshy at any other time.

4th DRIVE
I volunteered to best the next two as I thought working the dog in similar size woods to the ones we usually beat all be it with less birds would be ideal training as in no harm can be done. She worked very well quartered well recalled and turned on whistle (silent one but turned up audible) she entered cover as directed and stopped when asked. Incidentally she was off lead all the time and walked loose (well very loose) heel with some coaxing.

5th DRIVE
again she complied in this large wood very well indeed, cover was heavier than the others but she was working close and turns recalls were spot on.

Things I have learned.
Her heel work still needs to be better
Her recall needs to be sharper.
She doesn't like being on a peg when I shoot.
Thick dense cover pulls her in and she loses her head as a result however I am unsure if I should just leave her to it in these scenarios as she certainly puts birds up and wont come out until they are all out, I think I recall (or attempt to) out of panic as soon as I lose sight of her.

Any input on any of the above is more than welcome.

 

[Brand New]

Try not to recall as soon as she is out of sight. Trust her a little in this situation as she has shown you she can be trusted. As regards being on peg and her not being comfortable. Try to get a day picking up,she will be back from the guns and hopefully get a retrieve or two. Beating dogs dont get exposure to close up gunshot,picking up dogs get closer but a peg dog gets the full blast in his lughole on every drive.

Its all coming together though,you are doing good.  

 

[westley]

OUTSIDE DAY

Was really just the same as the small shoot as in walk one stand one, although we had walking guns as well. A really enjoyable day sixteen of us in two teams total bag 64 mainly phessie and partridge.

1st DRIVE
I was blanking in hedgerows and some bracken type cover as a walking gun. It was quite interesting and novel to be working the dog and looking out for possibility of a shot. Eze worked very well put lots of birds up some came my way but were very very low so no shots for me. We turned a corner close to the guns and she got in some very heavy cover were keeper and his wife were working there dogs, she disappeared into this for two minutes before deciding to return having ignored recall. With hindsight I should not have blown it because I knew she would ignore it and I knew she would come back once she emptied it of birds. I am still unsure when if ever I should just let her get on with it. ???

2nd DRIVE
I stood this one, I had a shot at a partridge but missed then a minute or so later I had an excellent first barrell woodcock which landed twenty feet behind me in a shallow stream. At the end of the drive I sent her out and she took some time working out this new scenario of retreiving from water but after some coaxing she delivered it to hand and released no problem with no signs of a hard mouth. I then sent her to retrieve a partridge that my neighbouring gun shot which she picked no problem.

3rd DRIVE
stood this one. Shot a pheasant. Shot at two more. Nothing to retrieve on this as already picked. I have noticed that eze is not too keen on sitting at a peg she appears to be quite concerned about gunshot from close proximity but shows no signs of being gunshy at any other time.

4th DRIVE
I volunteered to best the next two as I thought working the dog in similar size woods to the ones we usually beat all be it with less birds would be ideal training as in no harm can be done. She worked very well quartered well recalled and turned on whistle (silent one but turned up audible) she entered cover as directed and stopped when asked. Incidentally she was off lead all the time and walked loose (well very loose) heel with some coaxing.

5th DRIVE
again she complied in this large wood very well indeed, cover was heavier than the others but she was working close and turns recalls were spot on.

Things I have learned.
Her heel work still needs to be better
Her recall needs to be sharper.
She doesn't like being on a peg when I shoot.
Thick dense cover pulls her in and she loses her head as a result however I am unsure if I should just leave her to it in these scenarios as she certainly puts birds up and wont come out until they are all out, I think I recall (or attempt to) out of panic as soon as I lose sight of her.

Any input on any of the above is more than welcome.

Very few Spaniels like sitting at a peg, they prefer to be working  !  ( someone WILL be along to correct me in a minute though    )

Try not to recall as soon as she is out of sight. Trust her a little in this situation as she has shown you she can be trusted. As regards being on peg and her not being comfortable. Try to get a day picking up,she will be back from the guns and hopefully get a retrieve or two. Beating dogs dont get exposure to close up gunshot,picking up dogs get closer but a peg dog gets the full blast in his lughole on every drive.

Its all coming together though,you are doing good.  

WHICH is why my last Lab was even more deaf than me  !

 

[ips]

Try not to recall as soon as she is out of sight. Trust her a little in this situation as she has shown you she can be trusted. As regards being on peg and her not being comfortable. Try to get a day picking up,she will be back from the guns and hopefully get a retrieve or two. Beating dogs dont get exposure to close up gunshot,picking up dogs get closer but a peg dog gets the full blast in his lughole on every drive.

Its all coming together though,you are doing good.  

thanks BN.

I think your right mate, i panic when I cant see her but it seems she is just doing her job and prob ignores recall because she thinks don't be an arse there are still birds in here. Having said that there is probably a fine line between working cover for two minutes out of sight and beggering off without me knowing . Experience I suppose will determine the scenarios I can be confident in.

westley

yes she definitely does not like being that close she shows signs of anxiety even fear. I don't think I will have her as a peg dog again maybe do as BN says and have a go at picking up.

ps

re the two minute working in cover, is this normal / correct to send a dog into a large area of cover and just let them get on with it even if they are out of sight and just wait it out however long it takes ???

 

[Salopian]

Cocker Spaniel Field Trial Championship this Wednesday & Thursday @ The Abbeystead Estate Lancashire.

I have a Labrador ***** that I can send off to retrieve  (often after many have tried and failed) I just let her get on with it , and she nearly always never fails me .

A couple of weeks ago we couldn't find a very hard hit hen bird, sent her off and waited about twenty minutes for her , only to realise that she was sitting behind me bird in mouth , Lady picker up reckoned my dog had been sat there 15 minutes whilst we were 'gassing'.

Two of my Cockers will tour Shropshire and Mid Wales whilst retrieving . ( Purdeythe Lab ***** , thinks they are hooligans , very much like their handler)

 

[ips]

yes I was considering going on Thursday but have been told by a few that you don't get to see much at abbeystead and just join the crowd walking all day so not sure now.

salopian

would you be concerned about the above scenario of her working cover for a few minutes out of sight. ??

 

[Brand New]

Try not to recall as soon as she is out of sight. Trust her a little in this situation as she has shown you she can be trusted. As regards being on peg and her not being comfortable. Try to get a day picking up,she will be back from the guns and hopefully get a retrieve or two. Beating dogs dont get exposure to close up gunshot,picking up dogs get closer but a peg dog gets the full blast in his lughole on every drive.

Its all coming together though,you are doing good.  

I have a Springer that loves being on peg. He has lots of experience of picking up though. He has also been shot over. With due respect EZE has yet to associate BANG means a mouth full of nice warm feathers to retrieve. My old Springer girl has been in the beating line all her working life now she is picking up she is a little uncomfortable with the close proximity to gunshot. I shot over her this weekend for the first time and she dropped to shot nicely. She was a little sticky after the first two shots mind. 

 

[Salopian]

As this thread is showing, we have many types of gundog .

I do not mean breeds , I mean types.

Disobediant dogs,Beating dogs, Part trained dogs , Peg dogs , Picking up dogs, Field Trial & Test dogs etc.etc.,

BUT an obediant dog that is biddable is a joy to behold , one that knows right from wrong and just lives to make its Master proud, is a joy to behold.

If a Keeper , Agent or Shoot Captain asks you to attend with your dog , you are doing a fine job , or at least your dog is.

In answer to your question I would not be concerned in the least if my dog worked cover out of sight of myself as long as it returned on the recall.

Picking up , you rely upon your dog constantly returning with Game , but if searching for a lost bird you should be doing your part also and helping the dog to search, so you really shouldn't lose sight of the dog for many minutes.

 

[ips]

.

In answer to your question I would not be concerned in the least if my dog worked cover out of sight of myself as long as it returned on the recall.

Picking up , you rely upon your dog constantly returning with Game , but if searching for a lost bird you should be doing your part also and helping the dog to search, so you really shouldn't lose sight of the dog for many minutes

exactly as I see it. The problem is that "sometimes" when she is in dense cover with a fair bit of game she ignores recall and loses her head. So the way I see it that apart from being rubbish on a lead (working on that) all I am missing is a totally reliable recall (also working on that)

 

[Brand New]

Try not to recall as soon as she is out of sight. Trust her a little in this situation as she has shown you she can be trusted. As regards being on peg and her not being comfortable. Try to get a day picking up,she will be back from the guns and hopefully get a retrieve or two. Beating dogs dont get exposure to close up gunshot,picking up dogs get closer but a peg dog gets the full blast in his lughole on every drive.

Its all coming together though,you are doing good.  

I attended a local shoot last Saturday,one I had not been to before. As I walked towards the gathering in the farmyard,I heard people saying Daniels here.Its not my name,its my dogs name. I must be doing OK with him,it put a smile on my face.

 

[ips]

I have a problem.

not been to many clay grounds with eze this year. On Saturday I took her and although not fearful as such it was obvious that she would not be there given the choice. Also she shows fear and anxiety on the few occasions she has been with me on a peg during driven.

she has no problem with gunshot whilst beating and you can fire a starter pistol near her and throw a dummie retrieve with no visible issues.

in short she seems to have developed gun sensitivity.

what to do, how to do it and has anyone experienced similar from a previously gun shot tolerant dog. ??

 

[westley]

I have a friend who had a similar problem with a Labrador. If you fired a gun anywhere near it, you would find it back at the car. We worked on it together with me on the opposite side of a hedge with a starter pistol and him, with the dog on the other. I moved into the field and fired the gun, whilst he had the dog, sitting with the lead off. After several shots/***-bits, I had come right up to the hedge. We stopped it there. 2 days later we did the same, but this time I finished in the same field, but some 20 yards away. As there was no reaction from the dog, we upped the gun to a .410 and repeated, without any effect on the dog. After a week or so of this, I went back to the starting point and this time used a 12 bore. As the dog got a bit edgy, we stopped, left it a day, tried again etc. Gradually I got to within 15 yards of the dog and we introduced a retrieve. After a few more sessions I could stand alongside the dog and fire the 12 bore, no problem. I have known people take a dog to a shooting ground (like Webton), and have the dog in the next field, whilst holding it's attention (*** bits etc.), gradually bringing the dog closer, BUT be prepared to stop and take the dog away if it shows any upset. Oh, and leave your gun at home whilst doing this, get a helper. 

 

[ips]

Just been in field, she absolutely definitely has no issues at all with starter pistol. Over the last few days I have let her / encouraged her to run in so associate's the bang with good things, the retrieve. I did not want the shot to become a release command by allowing this for too long so today I chucked dummie into cover, fired a shot with starter pistol, blew stop whistle, a few times she took a few steps so turned her on the whistle back to heel then sent her out. I fired about twelve shots doing this as she was obviously enjoying this "game" so i thought best to do a few and get it engrained. I am sure I could turn this around given the opportunity to shoot over her in a controlled one to one manner but not sure if this will be able to me anytime soon. My next cunning move is to take shotgun into field and do todays exercise with starter as the shot but shotgun as the prop then move onto shotgun shot with dummie. Pretty sure I can sort it given time.

 

[westley]

Just been in field, she absolutely definitely has no issues at all with starter pistol. Over the last few days I have let her / encouraged her to run in so associate's the bang with good things, the retrieve. I did not want the shot to become a release command by allowing this for too long so today I chucked dummie into cover, fired a shot with starter pistol, blew stop whistle, a few times she took a few steps so turned her on the whistle back to heel then sent her out. I fired about twelve shots doing this as she was obviously enjoying this "game" so i thought best to do a few and get it engrained. I am sure I could turn this around given the opportunity to shoot over her in a controlled one to one manner but not sure if this will be able to me anytime soon. My next cunning move is to take shotgun into field and do todays exercise with starter as the shot but shotgun as the prop then move onto shotgun shot with dummie. Pretty sure I can sort it given time.

I would sooner get someone else to fire the shot and then you are giving the dog 100% attention.

 

[ips]

good point

 

[ips]

SEASON 2 DAY 6 SMALL SHOOT

 1st DRIVE
 blanked in a hedgline and some tall grassy bits, blanked in an adjoining wood then beat the drive. She hunted close was receptive to command, very pleased with her.

 2nd DRIVE
 blanked in a sort of wooded gorge then blanked in a hedgeline. Again she hunted very close and was receptive to command, nothing else to report.

 3rd DRIVE
 the beating went very well again I have no complaints today on that score. At the end of the drive I noticed one of the guns with no dog start walking from his peg to get a bird which was down fifty yards behind him, I shouted over that I would get it. Stopped eze on whistle and sent her out with one of those gay looking arm commands, she took a line thirty degrees to the right, I turned her on the whistle and as she turned she winded the bird and galloped at full speed. She had a couple of attempts to pick it up but did not mouth it (I checked later and the bird was unmarked) then she carried the **** pheasant which was as big as her and delivered direct to hand only releasing it on a "dead" command. I was really chuffed this was a great retrieve and a couple of blokes who watched it were highly complimentary. One bloke who works two labs said "she puts birds up, she retrieves to hand and she is biddable, what more could you ask from a gundog" I was very proud of her and wished I had my action cam which I planned to take but forgot due to being in a rush as I overslept this morning.

 4th and 5th DRIVE
 nothing to report birds were scarce but again she worked well in fact it fare to say that today she was the best she has ever been on either season. I could not fault any of it and did not need any verbal reprimand the whole day. I took westcountrys advice and trusted her more plus i was a lot more gentle in my handling of her which to be honest is my big softie natural way of interacting with her. I am pretty confident that she was the best dog there. I hunted her close and I a tight methodical pattern despite other dogs zig zagging over our beat.
 So in conclusion a really good day, if only they all went as well.

 

[ips]

SEASON 2 DAY 7 SMALL SHOOT

 1st DRIVE
 Torrential rain and flamin cold today, guns and beaters short in number so we blanked in and beat the first drive with three dogs three blokes and my Mrs who accompanied me today. I beat the centre of the wood with various types of vegitation. Right from the off it was evident that eze was "up for it" she hit every bit of cover with gusto and was very compliant to all commands her recall was excellent as were her turns, I was very happy with her and in my eyes she was faultless. Not many birds now but a few in the bag.

 2nd DRIVE
 I was a walking gun (with my trusty SxS) I was walking outside the wood about fourty yards out. I told the Mrs to work eze as again we only had two other beaters with two dogs, eze came to the fence numerous times looking for me but once she was happy i hadn't bogged off she returned to Lynn and worked well, Lynn had no whistle but did very well I think she may be a better handler than me and she enjoyed it. In the meantime my shooting was a bloody disgrace I had three birds over me but missed every one, in my defence they were low and because of the topography I had to leave them late so they were passed another gun and a safe shot, they were certainly safe for the birds. It was embarrassing.

 3rd DRIVE
 After a long walk in the driving rain blanking in we reached the next wood. Lynn now a dogless beater as I needed to redeem myself with good dog handling after piss poor shooting, ha. Again eze was very very good she hunted some heavy cover but always came back to check in. (i took brand news advice and trusted her more instead of panicking and recalling too soon, this has worked a treat and is less stressful for me) I gave her a quiet "good girl" everytime she checked in and hunted her on again. Again birds were scarce but she behaved impeccably and did not lose her head once. Good girl.

 4th DRIVE
 after a break were I enjoyed a flask of bovril off we trot again in heavy rain. My new shooting gloves bought on Friday are not waterproof despite the name and my hands were freezing. Shoot boss puts me in middle of a field . I tell Lynn to stand twenty yards behind my peg with eze on a lead and play it by ear, she reports that eze had no issues with shot from other pegs but unfortunately I had no birds over me. At the end of the drive I told Lynn the plan. I got a ball in my left hand Lynn told eze to watch, I took a shot in the air and threw the ball and Lynn sent her out for it. After that eze has a good scout around obviously looking for birds so I think were getting an association now with shot and reward of retrieve.

 5th DRIVE
 again I am put on a peg, Lynn stands twenty yards behind off lead at heel as I instructed. I had one bird over me and like a Muppet missed, again, ruddy ell. At this stage I hear Lynn recalling eze who had decided to come to me, I say just leave her see what happens. She comes and sits at the side of me on the peg (eze, not Lynn) this HAS to be a good sign surely ?? She gets up and starts mooching about twenty yards or so around me so I let her get on with it as I am thinking this can only be a good thing.
 So all in all a very good day apart from poor shooting, we had a nice meal in usual pub and defrosted. Shoot manager boss bloke offered me a gun for next season which I accepted.
 A happy chap today.

 

[Brand New]

Nice one mate ,sounds very encouraging indeed. Shame you couldnt have shot a bird or two so Eze could get a retrieve. Be nice if you could nail that before the end of the season. You got till Wednesday.