ips does beating

[ips]

Absolutely nothing wrong with reward based training,I personally only use this method when they are pups and then move to a praise based reward.But as with all things in life you do what works best for you.Dont know if you have seen any trialing? Some of the handlers give their dog a damned good beating before the trial,keeps them keen they say.i know what I'd like to do to them.

pmg

no not seen any and if that's what goes on I don't think I want too ?

depending on the circumstances I either reward with treats or reward with a ball or even reward by letting her do something else for instance I may reward a stop to whistle by allowing her to hunt or give a retrieve. My methodology is that if she complies with what I want I give her something she wants. It may not be the right way I don't know but its how I have muddled through so far so I don't see any reason to change it. ?

 

[PMG 63]

Dogs just want to please their owner,how you best achieve this is up to you.No different to people some like praise and some like bonuses and none like getting hit with a stick.I currently have a young dog in training and he won't come anywhere near me unless there is food involved,generally get ox liver(cheap) then boil it and let it dry then cut into small pieces.

pmg

 

[ips]

I like the analogy

 

[Brand New]

If I needed food to get my dogs to come to me ,then I would give up training. My dogs come to me and sit up looking at me when asked. No food needed. My dogs are not beaten or even yelled at,they do as asked because they get to do exciting things with me. They may get a treat when asked to do something new but they love to train and I DONT BEAT THEM.

 I have seen lots of trialling and never seen any dog given a beating before the start. If you have seen this then name and shame!

Dogs just want to please their owner,how you best achieve this is up to you.No different to people some like praise and some like bonuses and none like getting hit with a stick.I currently have a young dog in training and he won't come anywhere near me unless there is food involved,generally get ox liver(cheap) then boil it and let it dry then cut into small pieces.

pmg

Absolutely nothing wrong with reward based training,I personally only use this method when they are pups and then move to a praise based reward.But as with all things in life you do what works best for you.Dont know if you have seen any trialing? Some of the handlers give their dog a damned good beating before the trial,keeps them keen they say.i know what I'd like to do to them.

pmg

Load of Bolix,trialling dogs are never gonna give their all after a beating. Never heard such crap.

 

[PMG 63]

If I needed food to get my dogs to come to me ,then I would give up training. My dogs come to me and sit up looking at me when asked. No food needed. My dogs are not beaten or even yelled at,they do as asked because they get to do exciting things with me. They may get a treat when asked to do something new but they love to train and I DONT BEAT THEM.

 I have seen lots of trialling and never seen any dog given a beating before the start. If you have seen this then name and shame!

Load of Bolix,trialling dogs are never gonna give their all after a beating. Never heard such crap.

You are obviously the new Barbra Woodhouse and I congratulate  you on your skills.

Some years ago I shot game on an estate that used to host trialing comps and let me tell you we heard many dogs yelping especially at the start of the day.Now  me and the others guns put this down to dogs being abused but according to you its crap,so all I can think off they didn't like getting their paws wet.

 

[Brand New]

You are obviously the new Barbra Woodhouse and I congratulate  you on your skills.

Some years ago I shot game on an estate that used to host trialing comps and let me tell you we heard many dogs yelping especially at the start of the day.Now  me and the others guns put this down to dogs being abused but according to you its crap,so all I can think off they didn't like getting their paws wet.

I hear dogs in the beating line(always Cockers)screaming their heads off as if they are being butchered,they have just seen a pheasant and they are restrained on the lead,how cruel is that? The gundog clubs that run trials have strict rules about abuse to dogs. The Kennel club is quick to ban anyone seen abusing dogs. Almost all competitors would be quick to report any abuse as it would eliminate a member of the opposition.

    Many gundog owners are quick to knock the trialling folk,mainly because the trialling folk are successful trainers and the average shooter has a muppet that wont sit and runs in everytime it hears a shot or sees a pheasant.. My dog is rock steady in the heat of a drive with hundreds of birds running in front of him,other peoples dogs go mental and cant be recalled. At the end of the drive they take 20 minutes to catch their dogs. My two are at heel. No one says a word of praise for my two. They are embarrassed.

 

[ips]

brand new

I am hoping eze is as steady as your dogs I will let you know on Monday as I am beating on the big shoot. She was / is steady among high volume of birds whilst dogging in and low volume of birds beating on the syndicate shoot BUT Monday will be a real tester as we haven't experienced an orchestrated drive with stop starts etc. (insert "gulp" smiley thing)

 

[PMG 63]

I hear dogs in the beating line(always Cockers)screaming their heads off as if they are being butchered,they have just seen a pheasant and they are restrained on the lead,how cruel is that? The gundog clubs that run trials have strict rules about abuse to dogs. The Kennel club is quick to ban anyone seen abusing dogs. Almost all competitors would be quick to report any abuse as it would eliminate a member of the opposition.

    Many gundog owners are quick to knock the trialling folk,mainly because the trialling folk are successful trainers and the average shooter has a muppet that wont sit and runs in everytime it hears a shot or sees a pheasant.. My dog is rock steady in the heat of a drive with hundreds of birds running in front of him,other peoples dogs go mental and cant be recalled. At the end of the drive they take 20 minutes to catch their dogs. My two are at heel. No one says a word of praise for my two. They are embarrassed.

I am absolutely delighted for you and the success of your dogs in trialing, it seems as you say things have got better for which I Am trulely delighted. A good friend of mine trials a couple of dogs and works many others and from what I hear things haven't changed that much so it might depend on where you go.

As a gun dog worker I generally don't work less then 3and upto 8/9 so also need them to come back when called and definitely don't have 20 mins to spare to get them back.If you were to work on a shoot with me and your dogs performed as you say I'd be the first to come and praise you all.My family have been involved in this game along time and have seen many good things in trialing and working ,but every now and then we need to take off our rose tinted glasses and look at reality.

 

[Brand New]

You are obviously the new Barbra Woodhouse and I congratulate  you on your skills.

Some years ago I shot game on an estate that used to host trialing comps and let me tell you we heard many dogs yelping especially at the start of the day.Now  me and the others guns put this down to dogs being abused but according to you its crap,so all I can think off they didn't like getting their paws wet.

I hear dogs in the beating line(always Cockers)screaming their heads off as if they are being butchered,they have just seen a pheasant and they are restrained on the lead,how cruel is that? The gundog clubs that run trials have strict rules about abuse to dogs. The Kennel club is quick to ban anyone seen abusing dogs. Almost all competitors would be quick to report any abuse as it would eliminate a member of the opposition.

    Many gundog owners are quick to knock the trialling folk,mainly because the trialling folk are successful trainers and the average shooter has a muppet that wont sit and runs in everytime it hears a shot or sees a pheasant.. My dog is rock steady in the heat of a drive with hundreds of birds running in front of him,other peoples dogs go mental and cant be recalled. At the end of the drive they take 20 minutes to catch their dogs. My two are at heel. No one says a word of praise for my two. They are embarrassed.

 

[Brand New]

Good luck ips,sure all will be fine as you have done the ground work(without beating poor Eze up)

PMG63,there have been so many good handlers won trials with dogs that have never been beaten. Only a moron beats his dogs,mine are my friends and when I come in from work they leap all over me with joy,they want to know where their going and what do I want them to do? I have a puppy who is not affectionate and a trifle shy. I can captivate her attention with retrieving a ball or getting her to sit and stay until the ball or dummy is thrown. I class myself as a novice trainer and I am sure that the top trainers have long since learnt that beating a dog gets a zero result. Anyone seen to do so needs reporting.

  Meant no insult to you or to doubt your experience but I truly believe that the beating of dogs is outdated and a thing of the past. There are so many enlightened trainers coming through now.

  Thats not to say that you cant growl at them though.

 

[ips]

BIG SHOOT DAY 1

First beating day on the big shoot that I have been helping keeper by dogging in.

Well that was interesting, totally different to the small syndicate job, an orchestrated almost military exercise (but of course you all know that) I had eze on the lead a lot of the time as the volume of birds was immense but I was given the opportunity to hunt her on a few occasions and unlike the last two weeks on the small shoot she was far from tentative. She was steady to flush on the few we had and steady enough in the presence of birds in the open but we had two "incidents" after a very long and grueling third drive through thick woods on and on the lead for the duration I let her off for a mooch about while we walked to the next drive, I took my eye off her for a second and she was off over the hills literally. I had to walk a good hundred yards up a wooded hillside and found her on her way back from her little jolly outing, the keeper witnessed this and i apologised but he was not concerned as no harm done. The other incident was in very very thick cover on a partridge drive, she got straight in and I think got disorientated and did not re appear for a good three minutes, I felt a little better when the keepers wife informed me that she lost her dog in there last week. An enjoyable day but hard work and a little stressful when I had her off the lead as I would have hated to have done any harm to a drive particularly as the keeper and I have become good friends. There were some very good dogs on this shoot so eze and I are now at the bottom as opposed to being a good team by comparison on the syndicate shoot so I now have a better idea as to what we need to work on. Bit of an eye opener if I am honest.

 

[Brand New]

Dont do yourself down mate. As you say,you took your eye off the ball,we all do it from time to time. Bet there was other dogs far worse,you just didnt see their faults as you were too busy concentrating on Eze. I used to think my dogs were inferior to all the others on the shoot. I know better now. Keep at it,training and effort will shine through.

 

[ips]

thanks BN your very kind.

as I say it was an eye opener really. She was a totally different dog than she is on the syndicate shoot or in my feild, it was quite alarming in some ways particularly considering how calm even tentative she has been lately. One assumes or rather hopes that it was just a case of it being a new / different scenario for her and indeed for me, in fact maybe she picked up on my "worries" and being on a lead for so long I don't think helped as she was so wound up, she is not good on a lead.

 

[PMG 63]

thanks BN your very kind.

as I say it was an eye opener really. She was a totally different dog than she is on the syndicate shoot or in my feild, it was quite alarming in some ways particularly considering how calm even tentative she has been lately. One assumes or rather hopes that it was just a case of it being a new / different scenario for her and indeed for me, in fact maybe she picked up on my "worries" and being on a lead for so long I don't think helped as she was so wound up, she is not good on a lead.

Get as much experience on larger shoots as you can,it will do you and your dog no harm,wether you stay on them or not.Then when you go back to the smaller shoots  which is what I prefer to shoot and work your dog will perform even better.

 

[salop sniper]

As others have said, its all experience and don`t put a downer on it, its all good learning and now you are able to set new learning objectives for both of you. 

keep going at it and enjoy.....Also keep us all updated with what is such a great thread !  B)

 

[ips]

thanks salop ?

I already have devised a training strategy to improve recall, stop and keep her hunting tight. And I ain't sending her in to that dense cover again ?

 

[ips]

My one ain't perfect and has become a little sticky but I would rather have to coax her to get on than have her begger off and go self employed. I shall continue with the treats as its worked so far.

do you ever wish you hadn't said anything ?

 

[Les53]

do you ever wish you hadn't said anything ?

Ha......you have always made a habit of that sort of thing! ???

 

[ips]

indeed. ??

 

[Brand New]

Avoid maize,they tend to run on in straight lines.Really work her through heavy brambles and dense laid bracken. The thicker and harder going,the closer she will be to you and therefore easier to stop on the whistle. Its a spaniel thing and we all have the same problem,me included.