ips does beating

[Salopian]

A change of whistle tone would need for the dog to relearn commands. Being as she seems to have forgotten (ignoring) you can persevere with your original one.

BUT ! 

Being 70 my parents were allowed to clip me around the ear and I learned fast.

Being a craftsman training apprentices , my apprentices learned fast and became without exception super craftsmen.

Times move on and I do not condone violence or physical tussling.

So Eze just needs an earful of stern commands, she will soon learn  ! I doubt scolding did anyone any harm?

Stop being a big softy, we all know you love her to bits, and like all good women she is cashing in on it.

Tomorrow starts the sale of handbags, boots , jewellery and dresses, get your cash out Mr. Softy (which used to be the ice cream man).

 

[ips]

peter

just got back from buying new dining table and chairs. Does that count.

 

[Ashley]

Hi Ian, just read your report on your 1st day beating, I haven't been on here much for a while and was pleased to see that the training and perseverance has paid off and that you seem to loving every minute of it.. Keep it up and enjoy the rest of the season.

happy new year, Ashley 

 

[Ashley]

Hi Ian, just read through it all and came to the question above.

in a word yes

the dog gets used to hearing it and there are no consequences for not obeying, you need to get out to her and give her a shake, she thinks bugger him I'm having to much fun to bother with all this obedience rubbish I can do what I want and there's sod all he can do about it.

I did tell you right at the start, give them an inch and they take a mile, especially cockers as they are such individual characters. 

Go back to basics on the recall, with no distractions, and use food to bribe her (if you have to)

best of luck, it can be done, but as I've said before you have to put the time in

 

[ips]

many thanks Ashley.

confirmed what I suspected, she has become imune its my fault I think, I have over used the whistle.

just for the record I have not and will not use physical punishment so a scruffing for instance is out. No worries though, I have got her this far without the need for aversives so I shall plod on.

thanks again for your kind words and advice.

have a happy new year my friend.

ps

that's another experienced handler to add to the list. Matt can we have a gundog sub section please.

 

[DavidJ]

Hi ips, you've not over used the whistle, you've allowed her to ignore it to often! Blow it once, if she's doesn't respond get out to her, I keep vocal with mine letting them know I'm not happy, pop the lead on and walk backwards blowing your recall whistle and guiding her in to you with the lead. Remember its probably going to take longer to fix that it took to break! Be consistent and be fair, if you don't feel like getting after her then don't give her the command as you'll break all the work you've put in.

Plan some little 15 minute training sessions, keep things close and repeat the drill's. Throw a couple of dummies forward and send her for one as she's going out roll a ball behind you as a blind, it puts scent on the ground so you will be able to encourage her to get out and pick it. Sit her up, walk away, walk back, occasionally recall her when you've backed away and when she comes in reward her with a quick short retrieve.

Have a look at this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pu3M9xG-aZ8 

 

[ips]

cheers David.

happy new year to you and your dogs

ps

great clip, that style would suit eze, she likes things to happen quickly. Will give something similar a go later.

pps

not been to office to sort the dropbox out yet.

 

[ips]

update for anyone interested

steadiness coming on very well indeed since I took the decision three weeks ago not to allow any run ins even at play with a ball this decision has paid off very well as she is now 95% steady, by this I mean once out of twenty throws will she forget herself and run in, the frequency of these is decreasing daily in fact on occasions she has realised after a yard or so and stopped herself then waited for the release command "out"

stop whistle training coming on better since I started to drop blind retrieves on walks and in field while she walks to heel. I heel her blow stop then walk on ten yards or so then I turn and either blow recall or give her "back" command for the blind. This made up routine does I believe teach heel, stop and a back command all in one. I consider it a good exercise for us but I could be doing something fundamentally wrong but hey ho I have now decided to throw the book away so to speak and approach this dog training mallarky the same way I have approached everything else in life and that is to do it my way and just work out what works. Off for another training session now in my very sodden field.

 

[ips]

how come within the same day you can go from compliant dog during training at 13-00 and then at 16-00 have a none compliant dog running in and generally dicking about.

is anything more frustrating than dog training, and don't say shooting as I can assure anyone who has never attempted to train a gundog shooting is very not frustrating by comparison.

bloody dogs.

 

[shortlegs]

how come within the same day you can go from compliant dog during training at 13-00 and then at 16-00 have a none compliant dog running in and generally dicking about.

is anything more frustrating than dog training, and don't say shooting as I can assure anyone who has never attempted to train a gundog shooting is very not frustrating by comparison.

bloody dogs.

It can happen very easily as you have found out ips and no there is nothing more frustrating ( welcome to the world of dog the eternal optimist I'll be good now and he loves me then I'm going really wind him up as I've been a good dog today already) I think all those that have trained dogs have experienced this at some point with a dog, I had a big English springer great hard hunting dog I was like you out training him one wet day worked well some nice retrieves  to hand was real pleased took him out later just to recap went whistle deaf did his own thing running about and working cover as he pleased no matter how much I whistled or called, He did stop once about 30 yds away looked at me with a look that said bollocks and carried on then I whistled and turned and walked away thinking he might get the message I'll be left behind it did work but he came at full kilter hit me from behind taking my legs from under me and knocking me arse over tip in the mud then sat looking at me as if to say I'm back ! ( little b##*@#d ) happy memories though  :thumbsup:

 

[DavidJ]

I did write another post out before but it didn't seem to post and I wasn't in the mood to type it all out again as I was on my phone.

I was going to tell you not to get to despondent if a good session is followed with a bad session. It happens and the best you can do is stop the bad sessions early, try finishing on a positive and try again another time. It can take months for what seems like the simplest thing to become the conditioned response you want and even then it needs refreshing to keep it sharp.

Keep at it, be consistent and don't let her get away with self rewarding the wrong behaviour as it makes you life harder. I know, its easier said than done!  

 

[ips]

It can happen very easily as you have found out ips and no there is nothing more frustrating ( welcome to the world of dog the eternal optimist I'll be good now and he loves me then I'm going really wind him up as I've been a good dog today already) I think all those that have trained dogs have experienced this at some point with a dog, I had a big English springer great hard hunting dog I was like you out training him one wet day worked well some nice retrieves  to hand was real pleased took him out later just to recap went whistle deaf did his own thing running about and working cover as he pleased no matter how much I whistled or called, He did stop once about 30 yds away looked at me with a look that said bollocks and carried on then I whistled and turned and walked away thinking he might get the message I'll be left behind it did work but he came at full kilter hit me from behind taking my legs from under me and knocking me arse over tip in the mud then sat looking at me as if to say I'm back ! ( little b##*@#d ) happy memories though  :thumbsup:

glad its not just me, its encouraging to hear of other peoples woes.

david

yes I see your point about ending a cack session early. I must say she was so good on the first session I was most disappointed at how the second one went, it was like having a different dog.

bloody dogs, who's idea was it to get a dog ?

I blame the wife....bloody wives

ps

beating tomorrow so I hope I get twelve o'clock dog and not four o'clock dog or I am in trouble.

 

[shortlegs]

glad its not just me, its encouraging to hear of other peoples woes.

david

Yes its not just you David the good times out weigh the frustrating ones and the pleasure youll get seeing her work for you as for tomorrow its funny they seem to know that its not training then and they get on and do the job. I hope you have a good day tomorrow and enjoy the day.

All the best 
Gareth

 

[ips]

no beating today

My sciatica is niggling me and I didn't fancy making it worse by climbing over fences in the rain and cold, also could not bring myself to shoot. Took the opportunity to do some indoor steady and delivery training which went very well.

ps

exactly twelve months to the day that eze came to live with us.

 

[shortlegs]

Happy anniversary  :good:  may you continue to have many more happy times with eze 

 

[ips]

update for anyone interested

taken a step back this weekend in an effort to proof the steady retrieve as I now understand that house to field is to much so gone back and done house then patio then drive when I have totally reliable steady retrieve with good delivery to hand as good in the yard as it is in the house then I will proof it in my field then in the countryside. If I had done this at the beginning I expect I would have saved myself a lot of time and frustration but I am an impatient bloke and moved to quick consequently I now have many half good things instead of some perfect things but you live and learn.

 

[ips]

steady with good delivery in house.

 

[John Wick]

I couldn't even get my wife to do that without protest! Well done. :smile:

 

[ips]

thank you kind sir..... Mine neither mate.

blind retrieve this afternoon

 

[shortlegs]

Good blind retrieve there ips and resisted the use of the whistle to let her hunt for it well done  :thumbsup:  as some will use excessive whistle to work the dog onto where they think the retireve is in the field but the dog has a better nose than us so let them hunt for it pays dividends