Lead Ammunition Group imminent report

[Salopian]

Just to update you all it appears that the LAG's report to DEFRA is going to back the implementation of a total ban on Lead shot!

Various reports can be read to update you on the current situation on www.shootinguk' and www.pigeonwatchuk under General Discussion.

The future does not look too bright.

 

[schmokinn]

and you won't be able to use steel because of safety issues...best i sell all my guns quick while they are still worth something!!

 

[westley]

This would account for the A**E dropping out of the used English gun market at present. Good English boxlocks are almost worthless.

 

[Mike L]

Another nail in the coffin of GREAT Britain, what is happening here?!!!!!

 

[westley]

I think it is called 'Railroading' !

 

[Oldblaster]

Has there ever been any research in the effect of lead shot on the environment?

 

[Jim Wheeler]

plenty to wade thro` this lot.
http://www.leadammunitiongroup.co.uk/information.html

same story 30 odd years ago about fishing lead shot,,, easier to ban something and stuff the consequence's .

did you notice how  lead in petrol disappeared ? which was justified as it was a terrible pollutant in water, and next to roads etc.lead weights in the ocean etc is still there 100 years later,,,,

ah well,,, here we go,,,

 

[Michael]

Who the hell is the LAG's and what powers do they have?

 

[Jan Powell]

A lead ban will kill the sport overnight. Many can't or won't use steel and alternatives are ridulously expensive.

 

[westley]

L.A.G. is Lead Action Group who were representative of the various interested parties (alleged) led by John Swift, late of BASC fame. Under the Freedom of Information Act, several communications have been revealed denouncing lead, all of which it would appear Mr Swift has backed.

 

[Richard59]

Hopefully relevant, the Norwegians have overturned such a ban

 

[Jim Wheeler]

if you open the link on page 7, LAG is a pretty much dedicated LEAD AMMUNITION GROUP,  an entity that's been around for years,go to the HOME page at top left., this will explain what this is.

 I hope your correct Rich, as this will be a death knell to most shotgunning as we know it. not to mention the loss to all allied people in the business .billions are involved,,, but the tree lovers will not worry... they get paid to do this.

 

[Rosso]

Cannot see this ever happening.

Rifles - bullits, air - weapons pellets, shotguns - pellets, game destroyed by steel, safety issues.

It would cost them a fortune in compensation same as when they banned pistols.

Millions lost in tax, vat.

Whole industries would cease.

Just heard on the radio at aTory fund raising event some one paid £120000.00 for a 500 bird pheasant day!

All that would go.

Its been talked about ever since I'v been shooting and that is along time.

 

[Madmillie]

Cannot see this ever happening.

Rifles - bullits, air - weapons pellets, shotguns - pellets, game destroyed by steel, safety issues.

It would cost them a fortune in compensation same as when they banned pistols.

Millions lost in tax, vat.

Whole industries would cease.

Just heard on the radio at aTory fund raising event some one paid £120000.00 for a 500 bird pheasant day!

All that would go.

Its been talked about ever since I'v been shooting and that is along time.

Don't get complacent though, these beggars love nothing better than winning their case by stealth. Thanks to Salopian for the heads up. It wouldn't do any harm to drop a quick email to your local MP just to let them know what you think about this.

 

[Salopian]

Interestingly (and intriguingly) John Swift, although retired as CEO of BASC is still paid for his LAG work + expenses by BASC and , to me, mind bogglingly , HE ISN'T A MEMBER OF BASC?????

It really is very worrying that an association with 140,000 members plus all the other shooting associations can sit by and watch this ban on Lead ammunition be implemented without sound scientific evidence that Lead is such an issue as they would want us to believe.

 

[Dunc]

Interestingly (and intriguingly) John Swift, although retired as CEO of BASC is still paid for his LAG work + expenses by BASC and , to me, mind bogglingly , HE ISN'T A MEMBER OF BASC?????

It really is very worrying that an association with 140,000 members plus all the other shooting associations can sit by and watch this ban on Lead ammunition be implemented without sound scientific evidence that Lead is such an issue as they would want us to believe.

Here is a statement from BASC...

Lead – a message to BASC members Posted on Feb 10, 2015

BASC’s Council has been shocked and angered by the unattributed email released by Defra under Freedom of Information rules, which suggests that the Lead Ammunition Group (LAG) could support a ban on lead ammunition.

To the best of our knowledge no report has been seen or approved by the Lead Ammunition Group as a whole. We do not believe it is in the gift of any one individual, or group of individuals, to overturn the group’s Terms of Reference which were set out by Government in 2010 and agreed to by a broad range of organisations. It is inconceivable that BASC or other organisations would permit any circumvention of those Terms of Reference.

BASC’s position on lead ammunition is very clear: “no sound evidence, no change”. We have not seen any evidence to change that policy.

Indeed, the Norwegian Parliament has just voted to repeal its law on the use of lead shot for live quarry hunting outside wetlands. Reasons for the repeal included the absence of new evidence on lead shot and the misinterpretation of evidence by those advocating the ban.

At BASC our arguments are backed by solid, scientific evidence and we refuse to countenance any decisions proposed by policy-makers, regulators or others that are not soundly evidence-based.

Policy cannot be based on speculation, bias, prejudice or unfounded claims and must be consistent with the principles of better regulation, set out under the last Labour government and built on by the current government.

And as we provide clear evidence to support our case we will expect those who seek to restrict any aspect of shooting to do the same. They must back their claims with hard conclusive evidence.

Anything other will be robustly resisted and challenged on the basis of evidence and science.

I also take this opportunity to confirm that John Swift, Chairman of the LAG is not employed by BASC, nor is he a member.

Alan Jarrett

BASC Chairman

 

[Les53]

Here is a statement from BASC...

Lead – a message to BASC members Posted on Feb 10, 2015

BASC’s Council has been shocked and angered by the unattributed email released by Defra under Freedom of Information rules, which suggests that the Lead Ammunition Group (LAG) could support a ban on lead ammunition.

To the best of our knowledge no report has been seen or approved by the Lead Ammunition Group as a whole. We do not believe it is in the gift of any one individual, or group of individuals, to overturn the group’s Terms of Reference which were set out by Government in 2010 and agreed to by a broad range of organisations. It is inconceivable that BASC or other organisations would permit any circumvention of those Terms of Reference.

BASC’s position on lead ammunition is very clear: “no sound evidence, no change”. We have not seen any evidence to change that policy.

Indeed, the Norwegian Parliament has just voted to repeal its law on the use of lead shot for live quarry hunting outside wetlands. Reasons for the repeal included the absence of new evidence on lead shot and the misinterpretation of evidence by those advocating the ban.

At BASC our arguments are backed by solid, scientific evidence and we refuse to countenance any decisions proposed by policy-makers, regulators or others that are not soundly evidence-based.

Policy cannot be based on speculation, bias, prejudice or unfounded claims and must be consistent with the principles of better regulation, set out under the last Labour government and built on by the current government.

And as we provide clear evidence to support our case we will expect those who seek to restrict any aspect of shooting to do the same. They must back their claims with hard conclusive evidence.

Anything other will be robustly resisted and challenged on the basis of evidence and science.

I also take this opportunity to confirm that John Swift, Chairman of the LAG is not employed by BASC, nor is he a member.

Alan Jarrett

BASC Chairman

Mmmmm.....I wonder what the CPSA have to say about all this?

 

[Dunc]

Mmmmm.....I wonder what the CPSA have to say about all this?

Good question.  

But, it is easy to take a pop at these organisations - I'm thinking specifically about BASC.  But, I believe they are doing the best they can and have to 'play the game' - but that is not to say that anyone agrees that lead should be banned.  Mind you, as has been rightly said, it is the Countryside Alliance who are on the LAG (with an ex BASC Chiefie as the Chair, but of course, BASC and I'm sure others, are briefing them and working together to ensure lead shot it not banned further.

 

[Les53]

Good question.  

But, it is easy to take a pop at these organisations - I'm thinking specifically about BASC.  But, I believe they are doing the best they can and have to 'play the game' - but that is not to say that anyone agrees that lead should be banned.  Mind you, as has been rightly said, it is the Countryside Alliance who are on the LAG (with an ex BASC Chiefie as the Chair, but of course, BASC and I'm sure others, are briefing them and working together to ensure lead shot it not banned further.

There are quite a few on there with a vested interest in keeping us shooting in one way or another. I don't see any members who are part of the CPSA, NRA, NSRA though! Personanally I would rather shoot steel than not shoot at all, this sort of thing has been going on for longer that I care to remember. A lot of guns these days are OK with steel shot, even though most do not want to use it. Makes me wonder how our international teams will get on if they have to use steel because of a ban on lead. Will the ISSF make Olympic disciplines steel shot ? Who knows!!!! So all we need now are steel shells that make no noise and we will have the anti's buggered!  :spiteful: