Lead ban announcement for live quarry shooting

[shortlegs]

A joint statement on the future of shotgun ammunition for live quarry shooting

• BASC Press Team
  
• 24th February 2020
  
• Featured News / Latest news / Lead Shot
  

In consideration of wildlife, the environment and to ensure a market for the healthiest game products, at home and abroad, we wish to see an end to both lead and single-use plastics in ammunition used by those taking all live quarry with shotguns within five years. The shooting community must maintain its place at the forefront of wildlife conservation and protection. Sustainability in our practices is of utmost importance.

Many years ago, wetland restrictions demanded a move away from lead shot and we believe it is necessary to begin a further phased transition. Recently, there have been significant developments in the quality and availability of non-lead shotgun cartridges, and plastic cases can now be recycled. For the first time, biodegradable shot cups for steel shot, with the necessary ballistics to ensure lethality, are available. These welcome advances are continuing at an ever-quickening pace, in response to demand from a changing market. Such advances mean that, over the coming years, a complete transition is achievable.

We are jointly calling for our members to engage in this transition and work with us, the Gun Trade Association and the cartridge manufacturers to ensure that further viable alternatives are developed for every situation involving live quarry. This is an opportunity to take the initiative and ensure the reputation of the shooting community, as custodians of the countryside, is both maintained and enhanced.

 

[Salopian]

SO , shooting organisations that are funded by the shooting community have rolled over and given in to political pressure .

NONE of the bad press associated with the use of lead shot has been scientifically substantiated , it has always been the subject of conjecture .

Communities that have been born and bred in Lead mining districts have no scientifically proven higher rates of mortality .

Since the ban of Lead shot for Wildfowling and Fishing wildfowl populations have shown no significant population increase .

But road deaths and knife crime mortality to humans has .

 

[shortlegs]

Yes it seems that way Salopian as you say no scientific evidence substantiate that a lead ban would be effective or have an effect also how can they say they will be ensuring the market has a healthier product when there is very little demand for game meat in this country . 

 

[schmokinn]

So after the debacle of the Lead action group not being able to come forward with any reason to ban lead after years of trying to find reasons to ban it,other countries repealing there lead ban and no proof that it is actually doing any harm they rollover.

Surely something of such significance should have been put to the members vote?

Nevermind Bismuth are only £1200 pound a thousand!

Be the end of BASC i should think.

 

[shortlegs]

I agree schmokin no consultation with the membership or even a survey for members opinion on it let alone a vote and think a lot will be disgruntled and reviewing their membership of an organisation that's supposed to look after our interests but has just rolled over not fought or asked to show the scientific evidence for this and been proactive in our defence .

 

[Centrepin]

40 plus years after the lead ban for angling there is no suitable alternatives just alternatives that we have to live with.

For non anglers, shot in size 8 and smaller and over 1oz are not banned. Apparently lead in these sizes are no threat. 

 

[MartynB]

Well here’s one member who won’t be joining them in their transition . Also one member who will probably decide to buy his liability insurance from a broker for £25 rather than pay 3 times that to an organisation that doesn’t represent my views . I hope that in future elections to their board there are candidates who have the cojones to stand up to the anti -brigade , aren’t influenced by stakeholders in industry , and don’t give a toss if a middle class supermarket won’t sell lead shot game . 

 

[squimp]

2 hours ago, Centrepin said:

As a serious fisherman I would take issue with your assertion that the lead free alternatives are 'not suitable'. I use them all the time and they are fine. And yes I am old enough to remember real lead weights.

I recall a thread about lead shot on this site recently that ran to many pages - so I wont rehearse the arguments again. 

 

[schmokinn]

As a serious fisherman I would take issue with your assertion that the lead free alternatives are 'not suitable'. I use them all the time and they are fine. And yes I am old enough to remember real lead weights.

I recall a thread about lead shot on this site recently that ran to many pages - so I wont rehearse the arguments again. 

The ballistic qualities of lead are of no import to fishing,what a fiahing weight is made of within reason makes absolutely no difference to its ability to work as a weight!

 

[Centrepin]

The ballistic qualities of lead are of no import to fishing,what a fiahing weight is made of within reason makes absolutely no difference to its ability to work as a weight!

It's not the point I was making, nevertheless I agree. I was just pointing out that in my opinion the alternatives even after 40 years aren't as good.

As a serious fisherman I would take issue with your assertion that the lead free alternatives are 'not suitable'. I use them all the time and they are fine. And yes I am old enough to remember real lead weights.

I recall a thread about lead shot on this site recently that ran to many pages - so I wont rehearse the arguments again. 

If you're happy with the alternatives that's fine, 100s of 1000s are. We all have differences of opinion and I don't wish to enter into a off topic fishing discussion on a shooting forum, I'll say no more.

 

[shortlegs]

Well here’s one member who won’t be joining them in their transition . Also one member who will probably decide to buy his liability insurance from a broker for £25 rather than pay 3 times that to an organisation that doesn’t represent my views . I hope that in future elections to their board there are candidates who have the cojones to stand up to the anti -brigade , aren’t influenced by stakeholders in industry , and don’t give a toss if a middle class supermarket won’t sell lead shot game . 

I agree with you Martyn and I will also be looking to stop my membership fee to an organisation that has taken its membership for granted in this action by not even putting it out to consultation of its members to get their views 

 

[salop sniper]

I can only echo what you guys are saying.

Maybe the change is needed .....who knows but until we know with overwhelming proven scientific results why have the organisations just rolled over. And the failure to communicate and engage with members is appalling.

Lets be honest with this now set to happen clay cartridges arent going to be far behind them. 

From what I have read Eley seem to be very in bed with at least BASC over this. I have never been an Eley fan but I sure as heck wont be using their products in this life time even again, not even if I were given them. 

These 9 organisations need to feel the anger of the people who pay their wages with their continued renewals and in addition also Eley need to see shooters stop using their products for their involvement in it.

 

[Doctor Lecter]

quite right  , these organisations  just doing as they like  without consulting the membership is totally unacceptable  ,     I for one wont be re-joining  !!  

 

[Lloyd]

I imagine Eley will transition to steel as will other manufacturers and the temporary blip in sales can and will be accommodated. 
 

I’ve read arguments about there being no scientific proof that lead causes death. First, death isn’t the issues. Brain and stem cell development is. Secondly, if the scientific papers you read are about the merits of reading Enid Blighton novels, then I’m quite sure there is within those pages no scientific proof. That however does not mean such proof doesn’t exist. It very much does exist. I’ve read argument about lead not being soluble. Particulate can be carried in suspension in water and also dust cause by abrasion as lead travels at 1400fps from the muzzles of our guns can be breathed in. 
 

So further arguments to uphold lead. “Steel doesn’t have the same weight as lead” not true. It in fact doesn’t have the same density as lead. Which is heavier, 28g of lead or 28g of feathers or 28g of steel?

Steel doesn’t have the same pellet mass as lead. See above. A No:6 steel shot is pretty much the same pellet mass as No: 7.5 Lead. 

Steel doesn’t have the same pellet count as lead. Not true. I can count  390 Everton mints just as easily as I can count lead or steel shot. It’s the volume that changes. 
 

Hardness is a key attribute of Competition lead. Steel is harder than lead. 
 

Steel doesn’t pattern as well as lead. True... but only to a point. 
Steel being harder in theory should pattern better, but due to a phenomenon called “choke bounce” steel patterns less well at increasing choke constrictions than lead due to its very hardness. Lead suffers this also but to a much lesser degree. 
To meet this problem with a solution, first of all a cup type wad would be very preferable. Secondly, chokes Will need to be manufactured in 0.002” increments to a maximum of 0.020” (preferably 0.016”).

Bismuth is much more expensive than lead or steel so (for some) the cost issue is something of a red herring. 
 

Steel is coming. Be that now by choice or later by enforcement. 
 

You can choose now, or defer where your choice may be limited to steel, bismuth or taking up another pastime. 
 

I’ve made my choice and from April I’ll be shooting Eley VIP Steel EcoWad and I’m happy with the small additional charge as I anticipate the price will remain static as rising costs of labour, materials and overhead are met with lowering costs of production due to larger production runs. 
 

“A house divided cannot stand”

 

[westley]

I imagine Eley will transition to steel as will other manufacturers and the temporary blip in sales can and will be accommodated. 
 

I’ve read arguments about there being no scientific proof that lead causes death. First, death isn’t the issues. Brain and stem cell development is. Secondly, if the scientific papers you read are about the merits of reading Enid Blighton novels, then I’m quite sure there is within those pages no scientific proof. That however does not mean such proof doesn’t exist. It very much does exist. I’ve read argument about lead not being soluble. Particulate can be carried in suspension in water and also dust cause by abrasion as lead travels at 1400fps from the muzzles of our guns can be breathed in. 
 

So further arguments to uphold lead. “Steel doesn’t have the same weight as lead” not true. It in fact doesn’t have the same density as lead. Which is heavier, 28g of lead or 28g of feathers or 28g of steel?

Steel doesn’t have the same pellet mass as lead. See above. A No:6 steel shot is pretty much the same pellet mass as No: 7.5 Lead. 

Steel doesn’t have the same pellet count as lead. Not true. I can count  390 Everton mints just as easily as I can count lead or steel shot. It’s the volume that changes. 
 

Hardness is a key attribute of Competition lead. Steel is harder than lead. 
 

Steel doesn’t pattern as well as lead. True... but only to a point. 
Steel being harder in theory should pattern better, but due to a phenomenon called “choke bounce” steel patterns less well at increasing choke constrictions than lead due to its very hardness. Lead suffers this also but to a much lesser degree. 
To meet this problem with a solution, first of all a cup type wad would be very preferable. Secondly, chokes Will need to be manufactured in 0.002” increments to a maximum of 0.020” (preferably 0.016”).

Bismuth is much more expensive than lead or steel so (for some) the cost issue is something of a red herring. 
 

Steel is coming. Be that now by choice or later by enforcement. 
 

You can choose now, or defer where your choice may be limited to steel, bismuth or taking up another pastime. 
 

I’ve made my choice and from April I’ll be shooting Eley VIP Steel EcoWad and I’m happy with the small additional charge as I anticipate the price will remain static as rising costs of labour, materials and overhead are met with lowering costs of production due to larger production runs. 
 

“A house divided cannot stand”

Funny you should mention Lead and water...............................my  domestic water supply is still through LEAD pipes  ! 

 

[Paul120]

I can see from searching the interweb that  that Norway had repealed a lead  ban . It's not obvious from my searching that this changed. Am I missing something? 

 

[Lloyd]

Funny you should mention Lead and water...............................my  domestic water supply is still through LEAD pipes  ! 

Mine too...

Until I moved in and had it changed back to the mains supply (which is plastic) a year ago. 

So at least I can be reassured that my children are at reduced risk from their cell membrane being weakened as the lead trace enters their bloodstream and mimics other metals such as iron, calcium and zinc and replaces them, binding to the sulphhydril groups of enzymes and ultimately altering their DNA and that of my future grandchildren and great grandchildren ad-infinitum, limiting among other things their brain development, fertility etc etc and yes, actually, death, but that’s a minor risk being only about a half million reported cases in the last decade or so. 
 

Now for the whole debate about possible BPA in plastic pipes altering estrogen levels and the FDA ban but ok with the EPA saga.

 

[westley]

Mine too...

Until I moved in and had it changed back to the mains supply (which is plastic) a year ago. 

So at least I can be reassured that my children are at reduced risk from their cell membrane being weakened as the lead trace enters their bloodstream and mimics other metals such as iron, calcium and zinc and replaces them, binding to the sulphhydril groups of enzymes and ultimately altering their DNA and that of my future grandchildren and great grandchildren ad-infinitum, limiting among other things their brain development, fertility etc etc and yes, actually, death, but that’s a minor risk being only about a half million reported cases in the last decade or so. 
 

Now for the whole debate about possible BPA in plastic pipes altering estrogen levels and the FDA ban but ok with the EPA saga.

I presume it was er..single use plastic then    ?

 

[Lloyd]

@westley Yes. I only need one water supply pipe.