More lead, more dead

[jwpzx9r]

The shooting sports are caught in a perfect storm of an almost complete lack of mainstream media coverage, increasingly burdensome legislation, an ageing demographic and ever stringent environmental pressures. The impact’s visible now in ground closures and rising participation costs. What’s more, we’ve a governing body that talks a good game but has very little influence or power. Unlike the NRA, there’s nobody fighting our corner.

There is some hope. Shooting indoors is a opportunity worth looking at. Following the NI model would help keep costs down.

Though it pains me to say it, the sport in an organised fashion will eventually perish. 10-15 years is my bet.

Of course I shoot abroad but if we take a look at what can be done out doors there is reason to believe it is possible to create sufficiently controlled shooting environments where lead can be used. For example if we look at Italy, chosen because I have shot at the grounds but there will be others the same, Lonato and Bergamo come to mind where the shot is caught on a high berm and recycled ... there is even a small ground 10 mins along from Lonato with the same brilliant wee ground. However saying all that there will be riots in Italy, Spain and France if lead is banned! Of course expense is the result of the work required, how ever the last time I shot in Italy these grounds charged 8€ for a round which is very fair... especially given how cheap their cartridges are

 

[JDL]

Though it pains me to say it, the sport in an organised fashion will eventually perish. 10-15 years is my bet.

If clay shooters start to believe this, it will happen for sure.
I think we should be careful with such statements, as it might scare off potential new shooters.
Here the number of shooters are increasing, and finally also more youngsters.

Let’s keep shooting as long as we can, and not worry too much about what can happen several years from now.
 

 

[jwpzx9r]

If clay shooters start to believe this, it will happen for sure.
I think we should be careful with such statements, as it might scare off potential new shooters.
Here the number of shooters are increasing, and finally also more youngsters.

Let’s keep shooting as long as we can, and not worry too much about what can happen several years from now.
 

To be fair we have seen several new and very young shooters at the club I shoot at

 

[Jan Powell]

If clay shooters start to believe this, it will happen for sure.
I think we should be careful with such statements, as it might scare off potential new shooters.
Here the number of shooters are increasing, and finally also more youngsters.

Let’s keep shooting as long as we can, and not worry too much about what can happen several years from now.
 

I’m afraid it’s hard not to believe it. It’s visible each time we spend money on the sport.

If clay shooting is to have any chance of a future we very much need to focus upon what may happen years from now. The sport needs to explore new ideas, not just ignore or kick the challenges down the road for fear of a difficult conversation.

Indoor shooting looks a particularly good prospect. It largely solves the waste and noise issue and experiments in Germany and elsewhere show it works.

 

[JDL]

I understand and agree Jan.
What I wanted to say, is that we should be careful not to get too negative.
It would be a pity if people start losing fun, or even quit shooting.
This won’t help us in any way.

For sure we have challenges, and have to keep thinking about how we can keep shooting in the future.
I believe it helps if we stay enthusiastic, and keep having a positive attitude.

Indoor shooting might be a solution for the olympic disciplines, but for me it sounds much worse than having to use steel shot.
For a FITASC competition you would need a very large building.
I don’t think this will be a viable option.



 

 

[Jan Powell]

I understand and agree Jan.
What I wanted to say, is that we should be careful not to get too negative.
It would be a pity if people start losing fun, or even quit shooting.
This won’t help us in any way.

For sure we have challenges, and have to keep thinking about how we can keep shooting in the future.
I believe it helps if we stay enthusiastic, and keep having a positive attitude.

Indoor shooting might be a solution for the olympic disciplines, but for me it sounds much worse than having to use steel shot.
For a FITASC competition you would need a very large building.
I don’t think this will be a viable option.



 

Indoor shooting won’t work for sporting but then then it’s not intended to. For skeet and trap early indications are it works well. As for FITASC, who knows?

 

[ColinD]

I hate to think what the ventilation costs and running of a indoor scheme like that, not to mention the potential heath risk, are they going to be required to wear a mask when shooing.

We use a cadet range for our indoor smallbore shooting in the winter, I wouldn't like to think what the costs of deleading a large area like you are saying for shotgun shooting, it's bad enough what is required with a four position 25yrd indoor range

 

[Jan Powell]

I hate to think what the ventilation costs and running of a indoor scheme like that, not to mention the potential heath risk, are they going to be required to wear a mask when shooing.

We use a cadet range for our indoor smallbore shooting in the winter, I wouldn't like to think what the costs of deleading a large area like you are saying for shotgun shooting, it's bad enough what is required with a four position 25yrd indoor range

Looks like they’ve solved these issues. It’s a self contained clay shooting facility. Noise is controlled, waste is easy to collect and recycle, once built and fitted out maintenance is minimal, costs are manageable and the weather never spoils things.
I know of two such facilities in Europe and several in the US including some that host ATA events. The future of the sport perhaps?

 

[ColinD]

Throw enough money at something and anything can be solved, it's making enough to keep it running that's the problem, do you have a link to the website of these facilities.

America I can understand, Europe/UK with their safety rules I'm not so sure

 

[jwpzx9r]

Looks like they’ve solved these issues. It’s a self contained clay shooting facility. Noise is controlled, waste is easy to collect and recycle, once built and fitted out maintenance is minimal, costs are manageable and the weather never spoils things.
I know of two such facilities in Europe and several in the US including some that host ATA events. The future of the sport perhaps?

View attachment 8686

I could see a barn type structure working for some newly devised disciplines but I doubt that it is really practical for established shooting disciplines like UT and OT where targets are live until they hit the ground and they require to travel a minimum of 76m. I am not saying that the required structure could not be built but the costs would be huge and where exactly would the return on the investment come from? If grounds cannot make decent returns on investment with traditional layouts indoors has no chance of making profit IMO . 

 

[Jan Powell]

I could see a barn type structure working for some newly devised disciplines but I doubt that it is really practical for established shooting disciplines like UT and OT where targets are live until they hit the ground and they require to travel a minimum of 76m. I am not saying that the required structure could not be built but the costs would be huge and where exactly would the return on the investment come from? If grounds cannot make decent returns on investment with traditional layouts indoors has no chance of making profit IMO . The way forward , in my opinion is reclamation of the lead shot a la shooting grounds like Lonato etc... noise issues no idea how you overcome that ?? 

It’s a little more than a barn but yes, you could be right. We’ve got to consider everything feasible. Indoor shooting works for a limited number of disciplines but not all. Events overseas suggest it offers a viable alternative to outdoor shooting but, at present, on a very limited scale.

It’s unfortunately the case that the disciplines most at risk to environmental and legislative pressures in the future are those least able to adapt.

 

[jwpzx9r]

It’s a little more than a barn but yes, you could be right. We’ve got to consider everything feasible. Indoor shooting works for a limited number of disciplines but not all. Events overseas suggest it offers a viable alternative to outdoor shooting but, at present, on a very limited scale.

It’s unfortunately the case that the disciplines most at risk to environmental and legislative pressures in the future are those least able to adapt.

I know that you shoot trap and will be aware that in the case of trap shooting the shot can be caught by fine screens erected at the far front of the shooting area. I don't know if it would carry any weight but ground that had this could legitimately say they do not have a lead pollution problem it is all about being proactive in my opinion. I cannot imagine what amount of rioting there would be in Italy, France and Spain if a lead shot ban was introduced... time will tell

 

[Jan Powell]

I know that you shoot trap and will be aware that in the case of trap shooting the shot can be caught by fine screens erected at the far front of the shooting area. I don't know if it would carry any weight but ground that had this could legitimately say they do not have a lead pollution problem it is all about being proactive in my opinion. I cannot imagine what amount of rioting there would be in Italy, France and Spain if a lead shot ban was introduced... time will tell

Absolutely. Several ground owners in the UK are already looking at lining banks and grassed areas with sheeting to easily collect fallen shot. Skeet and trap lend themselves very well to initiatives such as this and will surely present a good case for the continuation of lead shot at their venue if rules allow it. How events like sporting and FITASC will fare once steel is mandated I’ve no idea. You’d assume both would have to change very significantly.

 

[jwpzx9r]

Absolutely. Several ground owners in the UK are already looking at lining banks and grassed areas with sheeting to easily collect fallen shot. Skeet and trap lend themselves very well to initiatives such as this and will surely present a good case for the continuation of lead shot at their venue if rules allow it. How events like sporting and FITASC will fare once steel is mandated I’ve no idea. You’d assume both would have to change very significantly.

I know this is thread drift but if you think about it  industries can cause any amount of pollution in real terms but hobbyists shooting a few rounds of what ever with lead shot are the ones causing the problems... if ever you wanted to highlight deflection and spin there it is right there We are now perusing a world of eclectically powered vehicles using batteries that the production of is one of the most environmentally damaging things ever to be dreamt up !

 

[Wonko the Sane]

I know this is thread drift but if you think about it  industries can cause any amount of pollution in real terms but hobbyists shooting a few rounds of what ever with lead shot are the ones causing the problems... if ever you wanted to highlight deflection and spin there it is right there We are now perusing a world of eclectically powered vehicles using batteries that the production of is one of the most environmentally damaging things ever to be dreamt up !

Logic and facts are wholly immaterial to any discussion in current times.  Like Andre said many years ago, "image is everything."