My first (Budget) gun

[cjaseng]

Hi all, 

I should be getting my licence now in the next few weeks (it's been a long wait!!) so I'll be looking to get my first gun. I'm not going in totally blind, I've done some reading around and taken some advice on board from forums and others I've spoken to at some of the shoots I've been on as well as being able to try a couple of different guns at a couple of shoots. However it still feels like there's a lot to know. So far I have 4 specifications (O/U, 30" barrel length, Multichoked or at least both barrels to be over 1/2" and steel proofed) with a MAXIMUM budget of £550. I know a lot of people say to go with Berretta/Browning/Miroku but with a young family to support and a cost of living crisis these are outside of my budget. I live in the South West and there are a few gun shops around here that I can try out the guns before buying and they have a fair few that meet my specs within budget. Namely Brands like Lanber, Bettinsoli, ATA, KOFS, Nikko and Winchester. Now assuming I get on well with the fit with one of these brands, are there any that I should avoid for one reason or another? I am lead to believe that KOFS have a bit of a vicious recoil on them due to their lightweight.

I am somewhat more drawn to the Lanbers, ATA and Winchester

I think it may also be worth mentioning that I'm a mechanical design engineer with access to a machine shop, so the fact Lanber are now out of business doesn't worry me too much, as I can easily reverse engineer and manufacture parts if they were to fail.

TLDR: Are there any budget brands as mentioned above that I should avoid?

 

[Paul120]

Hi. 

I would seriously consider the Redofi EOS. I have one and have been  impressed by it. 

The one in the link is a good deal. 

https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/shotguns/redolfi/over-under/12-gauge/eos-sporting-adj-221011171558011

 

[Martinj]

I used Winchesters back in the day, so did the majority, I still have a 101XTR. They or it's variants - (Diamond grade etc.) were very popular and did the business on a regular basis. Good to hear you are a fellow Mech Des Eng because all of the Winchester spares were bought up and reside in the USA, this means you should be able to find any spares you need but you will be liable to pay expensive US export taxes.

You should find one within your budget

Winchester 101 XTR Sporter 12 Gauge Over & Under Shotgun 41229 | Sporting Targets

Winchester 101 XTR 12 Bore/gauge Over and Under- Gunstar

 

[Mike]

I used Winchesters back in the day, so did the majority, I still have a 101XTR. They or it's variants - (Diamond grade etc.) were very popular and did the business on a regular basis. Good to hear you are a fellow Mech Des Eng because all of the Winchester spares were bought up and reside in the USA, this means you should be able to find any spares you need but you will be liable to pay expensive US export taxes.

You should find one within your budget

Winchester 101 XTR Sporter 12 Gauge Over & Under Shotgun 41229 | Sporting Targets

Winchester 101 XTR 12 Bore/gauge Over and Under- Gunstar

Martin, why buy a shotgun which at least 35 years old? When spares are difficult to source too.

ATA seem to be reliable and not expensive and have a three year warranty too.

 

[cjaseng]

Thanks All for the responses. If it were to be a Winchester it'd most likely be one from the 5000 series. It'd also need to be a used ATA, though some on the used market don't seem to be more than a year or 2 old so may have some warranty left on them.

 

[Martinj]

Yes, fair point, although CJ says he is happy to make parts, All I ever needed was a new firing pin which is easy enough. I only raised it because CJ mentions Winchester and the 101 is still popular in a retro kind of way, perhaps due to [SIZE=14.6667px]A.J. "Smoker" Smith (RIP) who became world champion using a pair of high-grade Winchester 101's. (Worked for him [/SIZE] )

 

[Charliedog]

I think both Kofs and ATA are prone to a bit more recoil mainly due to being relatively lightweight and the triggers are slightly agricultural but if its your first gun and you know no different then you will be fine. Build quality of both is surprisingly good and due to low purchase cost you wont actually lose a lot of money when upgrading. Stick to sensiible cartridges and will be fine. I have a Kofs and a krieghoff and they both do thre job fine.

 

[Aeron]

I bought a new browning 525sl and an old Winchester 101 xtr for my son to use . To be honest the Winchester is a better gun , the trigger is far better . Plenty of them for sale and with your budget you could get a very nice one.

 

[Garwood]

Out of your original list,I`d stick to Winchester/Nikko ,both quality guns .The rest are cheaply made junk.

 

[cjaseng]

Hi All, sorry to bring this post back up. My licence has since landed on my doorstep but my budget has taken a turn for the worse. That being said, A Lanber has come up for sale privately near me really quite cheaply. It's advertised as a Sporter but I strongly believe it's a game/field gun. It must be a circa 1986 year based on another one I can find online. That being said, it's a 12g does have 30" barrels and is a multi-choke. My question is (assuming it's not a bag of nails and it fits ok), will it make that much difference being a field gun over a sporter using it only for clays? At this point I'm somewhat inclined to go for it as it means I can get out there and get some practice in whilst saving for something slightly better in a years or so time. it's also cheap enough that I could keep it in the cabinet as spare/to lend to friends if they fancied tagging along with me as well.

 

[Will Hewland]

Hi All, sorry to bring this post back up. My licence has since landed on my doorstep but my budget has taken a turn for the worse. That being said, A Lanber has come up for sale privately near me really quite cheaply. It's advertised as a Sporter but I strongly believe it's a game/field gun. It must be a circa 1986 year based on another one I can find online. That being said, it's a 12g does have 30" barrels and is a multi-choke. My question is (assuming it's not a bag of nails and it fits ok), will it make that much difference being a field gun over a sporter using it only for clays? At this point I'm somewhat inclined to go for it as it means I can get out there and get some practice in whilst saving for something slightly better in a years or so time. it's also cheap enough that I could keep it in the cabinet as spare/to lend to friends if they fancied tagging along with me as well.

The game / sporter thing is not a big deal per se.  Depends on the gun. I would probably go for a game model in some guns as I dont like heavy barrels and that can be the most significant thing.  Judge the gun as it is. If it does fit and feels OK then go for it. It is so likely that you will change it in a years time if you get into the sport anyway. I would avoid it if it’s less than 7lbs in weight as that is really not helpful for clay shooting. Ideally it’s nearer 8lbs. 

 

[MartynB]

If it is a game gun , the biggest problem you’ll face for clay shooting of any form could be an ‘ Auto Safe ‘ . Clay specific guns do not have ‘ Auto Safe ‘  it’s normally manual . Having said that people do remove the auto safe function from game guns , but it is a point to check as one day you’ll call for a pair , forget to take the safety off ,  no bang , and eighty pence worth of clays wasted . 

 

[Martinj]

Remember you said you wanted proofed for steel shot because that day is coming

 

[vmax1010]

I had a field model and found the stock a bit chunky compared to the sporter imported by gmk, it is simple to remove the auto safe on these guns just a link in the action, the sporter should have a wider rib about 10mm if i remember correctly 

 

[cjaseng]

Remember you said you wanted proofed for steel shot because that day is coming

Hi Martin, you are right, but that was when I was planning on spending £500+ on a gun and anticipating it lasting me a few years. I can't foresee a lead ban in the next 12 - 24 months and I believe this will shoot standard steel, just not HP steel.

I had a field model and found the stock a bit chunky compared to the sporter imported by gmk, it is simple to remove the auto safe on these guns just a link in the action, the sporter should have a wider rib about 10mm if i remember correctly 

Thanks Vmax, I'll be removing the auto safety almost straight away. I've seen an instructional set of pictures and it's extremely simple, the original replacement part (339 safe button retaining pin) to allow the button to latch is obviously no longer available but I'm pretty sure this a standard size scroll pin.

 

[MartynB]

You’re  right CJA.

Any gun that can shoot a   lead shotgun cartridge is going to be just fine for shooting a standard steel shotgun cartridge . The Fleur de Lys  superior steel proof  and high performance  steel is not needed to shoot at clay pigeons , and what we can call normal game .  I was a sceptic , but this season I’ve seen reasonable pheasants killed stone dead with steel if the gun can do his it . Do your own research on choke for using standard steel . A multichoke would probably be a wise investment . 

If you intend shooting big wildfowl and stratospheric pheasants you might be looking at big shot sizes , say no3 in superior steel , so that’s a consideration but for what it’s worth non of my guns are CIP Fleur de Lys marked and I’m in no rush to change them . 

 

[cjaseng]

Hi, Just to give an update. I went to go and see the gun last night and it wasn't for me. It was definitely a field gun and not a sporter as the rib was thin and tapered off and it had an auto safety on it. (This upset me a little bit as the guy selling it new it was a field gun and still advertised it as a sporter). That being said it was in very good condition for the age (1987) and the money he was asking for it was very reasonable (I think he's after a quick sale and I could have picked it up for between £100 - £150). I have a bore sight laser which I popped in and mounted it to check the fit and it was hitting low and to the left compared to where I was pointing (at least I know my mount is consistent as I tried mounting it a few times and still received the same result) , I also found that being the field model, I think the stock may have been a little lighter and having 30" barrels made it a little barrel heavy. If it was a 2nd gun I was buying as spare I'd have probably had it, but for now I'd rather put that £150 towards something slightly more suited to me at the moment.

 

[philpot]

My wife now uses the ATA 30'' Sporter with adjustable stock and it seems to be quite a decent gun for the money. When buying any of the cheaper Turkish guns be aware that the the stock comb can vary quite a bit so an adjustable comb is a major advantage, this was very apparent with Kofs who have just launched their adjustable comb versions. The EOS mentioned earlier is not bad, my wife did have one for a while but the felt recoil was too much for her so we got rid. 

It is worth visiting a clay shooting ground that sells guns as well because you will get the chance to try a few before you buy and quite often under the watchful eye of the owner but that depends where you live. I have borrowed loads of s/h guns from my dealer to demonstrate to guys who are not sure what to get so it may be worth asking around.

Phil

 

[cjaseng]

Hi All, 

Just to update on this. I ended up finding a used ATA SP 30" Adjustable at a reasonable price. Had it fitted by the guy that runs my local shoot and I'm getting on pretty well with it at the moment.