Pattern plate advise

[TRINITY]

Hi guys,

To ease boredom been out today to pattern test my miroku 3800 32inch trap gun. Prior to lockdown my shooting was going down hill rapidly for various reasons . One being my constant missing over the top on straight away dtl and abt. I patterned at 30 yds with full choke to get a good tight pattern on the card. As I suspected I was between 85/15 to 90/10 high. Not much I can do about that really I suppose.

However the reason I am asking for advise is that I also noticed the patterns were between 55/45 and 60/40 to the left. Definitely a bias leftwards of centre. I am right handed and the gun has a dead straight stock. Would a slight cast to the right on the stock pull me to the centre?

Any advice really appreciated

 

[Dave9691]

Seek advise from a proven competent person on gun fit first, you mentioned that your shooting was going down hill before lock down that's a good place to start ask yourself way what's change 

 

[TRINITY]

Seek advise from a proven competent person on gun fit first, you mentioned that your shooting was going down hill before lock down that's a good place to start ask yourself way what's change 

Basically as a corvid precaution I decided to get some weight off and lost 2 stone.  I put that down as the main reason

 

[Paul120]

Def get someone competent to look at you on the pattern plate or shooting a straight away target. A lot of people pull the pattern left even with a perfect gunfit. It may have something to do with pulling the gun with their arms on a pattern plate in anticipation of the recoil.

If you gun doesn't fit and needs lowering. Get another stock made or get another gun. Yes it's your gun and there is an argument that if you intend on keeping it then alter the stock.  But bear in mind unless it pretty knackered  already the value in a Miroku 3800 in 32" is in its originality. You will  destroy the value of it  if you alter it.

 

[ips]

If stock is straight as you say then yes it stands to reason that you would pattern to the left. 

 

[MartynB]

If you want a good coach / gun-fitter  to have a look at you shooting Trap targets  and   recommend  stock fit you could do a lot worse than Mike Meggison at Kelbrook . He’s got a wealth of knowledge on trap shooting as well as gun-fitting , so you’d get everything analysed in one go and dimensions to take to a stocker if needed . 

 

[TRINITY]

Thanks for the replies so far guys. Yes the gun is what it is , dont think it's worth messing with. Plenty of time still left to burn so going to try a sporter with a lower stock in next day or two and see what the results are. 

I also think it may a a slight cast so that question may also be answered.

 

[ips]

If you want a good coach / gun-fitter  to have a look at you shooting Trap targets  and   recommend  stock fit you could do a lot worse than Mike Meggison at Kelbrook . He’s got a wealth of knowledge on trap shooting as well as gun-fitting , so you’d get everything analysed in one go and dimensions to take to a stocker if needed . 

Yep, I concur, Mike knows his stuff. But trinity has already established that the gun doesn't fit as it's shooting way left. Get rid of the gun, it doesn't fit

 

[Jan Powell]

However the reason I am asking for advise is that I also noticed the patterns were between 55/45 and 60/40 to the left. Definitely a bias leftwards of centre. I am right handed and the gun has a dead straight stock. Would a slight cast to the right on the stock pull me to the centre?

Potentially yes, although there’s a little more to it than that. Other variables could be responsible.

As far as missing straight away targets are concerned, more often than not eye placement and gun hold are the the cause. Are you sure you’re happy with these and, if so, are you being consistent every time?

I can put you in touch with a top notch trap coach who’ll sort you out in a jiffy if you like. Drop me a message.

 

[Doctor Lecter]

Basically as a corvid precaution I decided to get some weight off and lost 2 stone.  I put that down as the main reason

congrats  on the weight loss , wish i could   zero willpower slob !!     :stuff:

 

[k80ben]

1, Stay off the pattern plate there useless 

2, see someone who knows how to fit and is modern in their shooting styles. 
 

good luck sir. 

 

[Will Hewland]

Agree with Ben, pattern plates are irrelevant for where the gun will shoot compared to an actual clay, which moves and dictates the timing, affecting your speed and behaviour. Having said that, if you are consistently going to the left then a gun fit issue is likely and moving an adjustable comb would likely fix it. But in terms of shooting high, that is very much about dynamics and how you move and press into the comb. Just shoot at straight away clays and find your tempo and style to vaporise them with a given gun. 

 

[Westward]

What Ben and Will said. There's a clue in the name pattern plate. Their purpose is for the overly anal with time on their hands to compare patterns, not to test for point of impact.

 

[Jan Powell]

Agree with Ben, pattern plates are irrelevant for where the gun will shoot compared to an actual clay, which moves and dictates the timing, affecting your speed and behaviour. Having said that, if you are consistently going to the left then a gun fit issue is likely and moving an adjustable comb would likely fix it. But in terms of shooting high, that is very much about dynamics and how you move and press into the comb. Just shoot at straight away clays and find your tempo and style to vaporise them with a given gun. 

I'm not sure i'd say they're irrelevant. In terms of giving you a broad perspective of where the gun's shooting they're useful. So long as the user understands the limitations and applies the pattern plate feedback with that gathered from shooting targets.

I'm not quite sure where you're going with the 'press into the comb' thing as it kind of assumes the comb height has a variable on point of impact. It doesn't.

 

[Will Hewland]

I'm not sure i'd say they're irrelevant. In terms of giving you a broad perspective of where the gun's shooting they're useful. So long as the user understands the limitations and applies the pattern plate feedback with that gathered from shooting targets.

I'm not quite sure where you're going with the 'press into the comb' thing as it kind of assumes the comb height has a variable on point of impact. It doesn't.

Watch a lot of (not the best) sporting shooters and they have varying degrees of contact pressure with the stock. Some barely connect with the wood. Others vary it on different target presentations. Can’t say for trap, but perhaps as it’s always an away target there is better discipline to really connect with the comb before even calling pull (or yelling at that speaker thingy). 

 

[Jan Powell]

Watch a lot of (not the best) sporting shooters. 

Err, no thanks. I did that once and foolishly bought myself a pair of moleskin trousers!

 

[k80ben]

Do patten plates are for patterns completely useless for gunfit. 
 

comb height doesn’t effect point of impact ??? Not sure I read this correct 

 

[Doctor Lecter]

Watch a lot of (not the best) sporting shooters and they have varying degrees of contact pressure with the stock. Some barely connect with the wood. Others vary it on different target presentations. Can’t say for trap, but perhaps as it’s always an away target there is better discipline to really connect with the comb before even calling pull (or yelling at that speaker thingy). 

regards sporting mr fanzini  makes no contact with cheek on stock ?   

 

[Wonko the Sane]

As I suspected I was between 85/15 to 90/10 high. Not much I can do about that really I suppose.

I can't believe some of the comments I read here.  As to the above and the to the left stuff a simple mod to an adjustable comb will provide the cure to all of it.   Why this remains a mystery remains a mystery to me!  Custom fitted stocks, adjustable stocks, ergonomic stocks all have the same purpose - fit the gun to the SHOOTER.

As to pattern plate usage - it is most def suitable for POI and all that is necessary is to hold/mount the gun in the very same manner as when shooting targets.  That's all I do and when I set the trap to mid-height center targets to check POI there has only been one instance where I have had to move the comb and that was to drop the comb a 2mm washer to make smoke.  The biggest mystery in all of this is why a shooting tradition that reveled in bespoke guns is generally incapable of understanding basic gun fitting.  That would be you, England.

but then inventing the wheel again is a universally enjoyed pursuit, innit?-

And on the other side of that I hardly ever use the plate for patterning.  The Perazzi chokes are marked and I know that they are more/less cylinder, +/- imp cyl, +/- modified, +/- imp mod, +/- full.  Perazzi understands that obsessing about choke is a waste of time with a shotgun and their fixed choke barrel markings reflect that.  They do the full 10 count marks on the screw-ins but I suspect that is for the OCD market in actuality since only five are really necessary.

but all y'all have fun and have a Happy Spring

Charlie