Ported chokes

[no.1topdog]

But there are people who could not seemingly live without them.  

It's a funny old world, innit?

Very true Wonko, personally I couldn't live without mine. I've had a Beretta 682 Supersport with factory ported barrels since 1992 and I'm afraid to say it's going to be nailed in the box with me when it's time to go.

I find the porting very effective, particularly on fast retreating or crossing simultaneous pairs where the lack of muzzle flip is most apparent, leading to much faster second target aquisition. I've shot similar Berettas before and since for comparison, and it works for me. I liken it to shooting a 28 bore adaptor compared to a normal 12. I have a kickeez pad fitted too (I know they are supposed to be bouncy, I guess I just like the bounce) and that helps it to feel soft too.

I also shoot a racey cartridge known for their recoil (like Express World Cup or Gamebore Black Gold) because I can, so I suppose it evens things out a bit, but they both pattern excellently through this gun.

I once had a friend take some high speed photo shots in the dark of this gun firing. The results were surprising to say the least, and I can assure you that plenty of flame (and presumably, pressure) comes out through the ports.

Indeed a funny old world?   :biggrin:

 

[sidney]

Im going to be ordering a long extended choke in my preferred 5/8 from Mr Teague in the new year, get it in the workshop just for a giggle and see. wind it all the way in tight, mark it then cut the top out. The only thing that bothers me is the constriction tapers all the way through the choke. I have the thin wall long flush Teagues in my Perazzi, will see if he will manufacture me a choke where the constriction ends where the barrel ends, then just slightly wider tubes on the external bit. Then with any luck once the cuts are made it might not ruin the pattern quite the same. Willing to waste a bit of money just for fun. I'll let you know how I get on.........

 

[Jay]

I recall using one of my father's guns on the ABT at Lower Lake in Cornwall at sometime in the late 80's. It was a Perazzi MX2L and that had ported barrels. I think it also fired top barrel first. I enjoyed shooting that gun, loved the high rib with monte carlo, and it was a smooth shooting gun.

 

[Paul120]

I'm with Timps, I have a Gemini ported choke that I used in the bottom barrel, not sure if it made any difference in other than making the barrel more dirty at the end. I though that the point of these chokes was more about slowing the wad so that the shot was released earlier improving the pattern. Mind you from experience it's seems to help if you can get it in the right place to start with!!! Never used a gun with porting but in theory I can see some benefit with reducing muzzle flip. Peter Wilsons perazzi looks to have a significant amount of porting and I expect this has been fully though through.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

In 1996 shot Goodwood W Fitasc with some new fancy stick out American ported chokes.....looked pretty :wink: but did not notice any difference at all.

However the porting on the MX8 that Maestro Teague did (up only - removes 10-20% muzzle flip) is very effective indeed.

Two totally different things......true story..

 

[Hamster]

I have to agree, never noticed a blind bit of difference in muzzle flip reduction with ported chokes either shooting myself or watching the muzzle of others using them, ported barrels though are a different matter. Yes they can be louder, uglier, dirtier and maybe even reduce the value a tad but watch a ported gun being fired and it defo rises less vertically.

 

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Yes Teague ports so that the noise is deflected up not sideway....so you do not notice it being any noisier than anything else (like crap cartridges that make awful noises). If anyone is thinking of having it done....go to the expert.

 

[Wonko the Sane]

I'm with Timps, I have a Gemini ported choke that I used in the bottom barrel, not sure if it made any difference in other than making the barrel more dirty at the end. I though that the point of these chokes was more about slowing the wad so that the shot was released earlier improving the pattern. Mind you from experience it's seems to help if you can get it in the right place to start with!!! Never used a gun with porting but in theory I can see some benefit with reducing muzzle flip. Peter Wilsons perazzi looks to have a significant amount of porting and I expect this has been fully though through.

My bolding in the quote.  More Hogwarts physics.  Lordy!!  Wad strippers, ports, big bores, mystical incantations, blessed chicken feet.  Will it never end?

I can reduce muzzle flip remarkably just by cutting the stock downpitch back to an inch or so.  Way easy.

I'll believe in ports actually doing something when I see some verifiable and reproducible test evidence.  Until then I just gotta go with what I feel (or don't) and on that basis I don't need any molested barrels.  Or choke tubes. 

 

[Jay]

I agree Wonko that there are a variety of methods to fix a muzzle flip issue, and having learnt my lesson the expensive way some time ago I would never have barrels modified again either.

That said, my initial thoughts on the subject of porting (barrels or chokes) are that I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it as Hogwarts Physics, because I rather doubt that those (relatively small) companies involved in this specialised and niche market would accept the commercial risk of developing such products without having documented R&D test data that supports a performance benefit however small (or discreet/unnoticeable) it may be.    

 

[Wonko the Sane]

i'd just be crazy to see that data.  Like I said before - verified and reproducible.  It'd be a first.

Good hype has no need for actual testing - all it has to do is "sound right".   Wad strippers are Hogwarts physics.  Porting is just simple extrapolationus absurdum.  Hogwarts Latin.

 

[Hamster]

I agree Wonko that there are a variety of methods to fix a muzzle flip issue, and having learnt my lesson the expensive way some time ago I would never have barrels modified again either.

That said, my initial thoughts on the subject of porting (barrels or chokes) are that I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it as Hogwarts Physics, because I rather doubt that those (relatively small) companies involved in this specialised and niche market would accept the commercial risk of developing such products without having documented R&D test data that supports a performance benefit however small (or discreet/unnoticeable) it may be.    

I have to agree, never noticed a blind bit of difference in muzzle flip reduction with ported chokes either shooting myself or watching the muzzle of others using them, ported barrels though are a different matter. Yes they can be louder, uglier, dirtier and maybe even reduce the value a tad but watch a ported gun being fired and it defo rises less vertically.

 
I have only ever had one gun (old spec 682 30") ported, it worked in muzzle flip reduction but they don't reduce recoil. If I shot a lot of going away rapid pairs I'd do it again and live with the few minor disadvantages such as noise, Peter Wilson has.

 

[ips]

Never had or shot a ported barell but i remember when they were the latest fad in late 80s ish. Seem to remember quite a few buying them and then they were banned in many trap disciplines. I wonder what happened to them all, sleepers in cabinets presumably kept as a future curiosity.

 

[no.1topdog]

Never had or shot a ported barell but i remember when they were the latest fad in late 80s ish. Seem to remember quite a few buying them and then they were banned in many trap disciplines. I wonder what happened to them all, sleepers in cabinets presumably kept as a future curiosity.

Far from it Ips, still in use today but obviously not for Trap, and loving every minute of it!

The best reaction you get is from scorers who stand slightly to one side of you, and just behind. They soon test their ear protection thinking it may have failed, and sometimes you can feel the crowd behind you moving backwards! Great for shoot-offs when the next guy is trying to see how much lead you're giving.

Similar to the days when you turned up with Baikal Cartridges!!  :sarcastic:

 

[ips]

No experience with them as i said but they presumably do something or they would never have been invented.

 

[Hamster]

As Nicola say's Teague Ports DO work! I have just sold a Miroku that was ported by Nigel Teague and it definately made a difference. I have had a lot of experience of Rifle shooting and i can assure you that a ported muzzle break on a large centrefire rifle make around a 50-60% drop in recoil and virtually eliminates muzzle flip (i know it's a rifle but it's the same science) so as for the Hogwarts Physics Wonko, you are wrong.

To be fair to Wonko he's talking about shotguns, the principle is the same with rifles but they work much more efficiently / noticeably with those and I'm certain he'll agree. The reason seems to be related to the velocity figures being in the region of 3-4000 fps compare to our lowly 1400 fps. There are videos on YouTube where this difference in muzzle flip and recoil can clearly be seen with rifles, it's much less obvious with shotguns and as mentioned before non-existent in recoil terms.

 

[Wonko the Sane]

Rifles and pistols are working with far greater pressures - which is what counts, not velocity -  and concentrating that pressure thru probably smaller areas.  I have no idea what the pressures are in either rifles or shotguns just before it is relieved by the exiting projectile but it starts out about 5-6times greater and is contained in a far smaller volume in a rifle.  Could easily be a ten times difference.

Let's see the quantified data - verifiable and reproducible.

I've watched ported K80's bruise and bloody faces and just generally kick the snot outta the people using them at pigeon shoots.  How in the ported world could that beeeeee?!?!?

and JIC you missed it -  Wad strippers are Hogwarts physics.  Porting is just simple extrapolationus absurdum.  Hogwarts Latin.

 

[Paul120]

Just quoting the marketing bumf. I have absolulty no idea if they work or not as far as wad stripping goes or muzzel flip I'll leave that to the manufacturers who have spent the time and have the equipment to reserch this. Although I did find  that I was getting either balls of dust or nothing syndrome which is why I went back to using a flush choke at most places I shoot, but this could be down to the differing brand, Who knows. The reason I got one and is one thing that definately works is that they stop me from marking the end of my nice shiny barrels on concreat stands when resting between shots. I shoot at a couple of places where there are either no rubber mats or just small squares that everybody keeps moving about but as it's practice I  and  don't want to rest it on my foot, it works for me at these places. I have my reasons but are probably not for this thread.    This post may contain nuts! :crazy:   

 

[ips]

Paul

its them ruddy left handed weirdos that are responsible for moving the matts, bloody lefties should leave things alone.

 

[Hamster]

Rifles and pistols are working with far greater pressures - which is what counts, not velocity -  and concentrating that pressure thru probably smaller areas.  I have no idea what the pressures are in either rifles or shotguns just before it is relieved by the exiting projectile but it starts out about 5-6times greater and is contained in a far smaller volume in a rifle.  Could easily be a ten times difference.

Let's see the quantified data - verifiable and reproducible.

I've watched ported K80's bruise and bloody faces and just generally kick the snot outta the people using them at pigeon shoots.  How in the ported world could that beeeeee?!?!?

and JIC you missed it -  Wad strippers are Hogwarts physics.  Porting is just simple extrapolationus absurdum.  Hogwarts Latin.

Wonko,

People getting beat up with guns, particularly the K80 which is well known for being heavy, can only mean poor mounting technique or poor fit. I think you're choosing to misunderstand what we're saying about ported barrels. They do NOT reduce recoil but DO have a marked affect on barrel rise, this can range from very noticeable to only just measurable but it is there. 

PS. I have never believed in wad stripping hogwash either, why it would or could have a positive affect on anything is beyond me.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

my guess is 7