Proper Cartridges

[Garwood]

Problem is,as someone predicted ,we`re 4 pages in and no sign of an answer to your original straightforward question !

 

[jwpzx9r]

Problem is,as someone predicted ,we`re 4 pages in and no sign of an answer to your original straightforward question !

I think we can conclude that there is a profit to be had from manufacturing cartridges and that Proper cartridges are doing alright in that respect. The guy has come on here looking to get a bit of free advertising... and he has got it. He is clearly not interested in making a budget cartridge where his take is less. Lets not forget the cost of the manufacturing process remains the same only the components change the cost of the finished product so logically if he has a market to produce cartridges that command a bigger profit for him why would he change. To make a good profit from budget cartridges requires large sales to have large sales you need to have machines running only that budget cartridge format ... he only has two machines!

The whole budget vs premium cartridge thing intrigues me personally. I can go through the bins at any of the clubs I shoot at and find that 80-90 % of the cartridges cases are what I would term budget type. This leads me to think, down here any way, is that budget cartridges are actually the best way for a producer to make their profit. 

It would be interesting to see what the breakdown is for cartridge sales for Gamebore . For example are their machines running full tilt making their premium cartridges with every now and then a batch of budget or is the bulk of the machine operating time spent on making budget cartridges... after all they are not going to make something there is no market for.

 

[Westward]

Exactly why George sells mainly game loads.  Cost of components is the same as clay loads, but he can steal some margin from the larger manufacturers.

Which begs the question: Why did he announce his arrival on a clay shooting forum when it seems he doesn't want to make clay shells?

 

[Garwood]

Spose we`re all talking about him and we didn`t before !

 

[Markh701]

And it's not the game season !

 

[MDP]

Perhaps he is making and selling plenty of clay cartridges, just not to us. He mentioned in an earlier post about delivering 45,000 to someone (unless he was referring to game)...

 

[David Paul Gag]

the lead content along david would let me knock of about 15 pounds  so mine would be  181   by 3k on your door for    3x181    just ask peter wilson about my sett up i am sure people think i am sitting in front of the fire  pulling a hand lever   24 gram less powder and less lead  cannot be in same  street as  a 28 gram   but thanks any way  cheers george

would have to be 200 on that spec  but can give you a cheaper good  clay cart using a different powder and wad   at say 190

Well Guys

that do's not seem to bad to me 181-00 x3 good cartridges

24g fine by me 

I will be ringing you Geoge 

Dave 

P.S that's delivered !!

 

[525kev]

Which begs the question: Why did he announce his arrival on a clay shooting forum when it seems he doesn't want to make clay shells?

Spot on !

 

[Salopian]

I think I answered that question two pages ago .

 

[Iggy]

I feel this is a useful thread and thanks to Hamster for the OP. 

If the objective was see if a decent, sensible clay shell (Hamsters spec looked good to me) could be produced to a sensible price, should we also be looking for a sense of the potential 'serious' interest?

If the 'Proper' route isn't going to work out, surely one of the more regular brands would be interested if there was enough potential volume? 

Should we run a poll, define the spec we are all interested in, agree the qty we are prepared to commit to and then make the relevant 'group' approach? I know distribution could be an issue, but perhaps there'senough 'majors' in the calendar to help accommodate this?

I've been happy with the same shell for over 2 years now (Clever T2's) but having jumped from £184 to £204 I can't see myself using them much longer. 

Some cartridge prices do seem to have softened over the last few days, so maybe the hike was a 'blip'....I hope so as there will surely come a point where many of us are priced out of the sport/hobby we love and what's left is the preserve of the sponsored or wealthy?

 

[Skeetfreak]

I KNOW i could put a pallet (25,000) of shooters choice of "mixed" clay cartridges delivered to a single address to be divided amongst a group for £50 delivery + the costs of your choice of shell from the range.

Using the example above £172 + £2 (per thousand share of delivery £50 / 25) = £174 per thousand.

Reason i know is because a group of us have done this for the last 3 years up here. I have coordinated the collection of funds and single payment to the supplier. Then acted as the single delivery point / collection point for the local guys.

Only word of caution i would add to this is IF you cut your local gunshop out by doing this you need to be aware that they may not be there when you need them.

Sure some groups could do this between them locally - of course the price goes up for delivery per thousand if you take less than a full pallet but it is surprising how quickly you can get to a full palllet if you buy for a full season of shooting. Attached is only the clay shells they also do game loads an you CAN mix and match and the whole group gets the 10,000+ price if you do single payment / single delivery.

Link to prices - View attachment Armusa 2017 Price List.pdf

 

[propercartridges]

IInteresting  figures. so, seems not much profit for 12m, about 7% , also shows they make about 72 million carts a year,  as isaid earlier post, over one and a half  million a week. and how many manufacturers are there?  like American  companies etc?

jim on my life i have spent more money on crisps  than what you quote above  if thats the best they can do far better close the doors  and go and shoot some pigeons

 

[ChrisPackham]

You have spent more than £12M on crisps? The life you refer to may not have much longer to run...

 

[propercartridges]

I think I answered that question two pages ago .

 at this very moment i am about to buy lead i watch the london metal exchange every day and log the daily rate   up to now it shows about 85 pounds per ton down from last month  which on a thousand carts is less than 2 quid    but you see i buy the best of gear but you lads dont want quality  i get asked 20 times a day for cheap carts   i am currently looking at a couple of options   importing cheaper swag   and  subcontacting  my job out   but will be better informed when i get  the new lead price at the biggining of june   i am not ignoring you chaps   but 200 for good quality is not realy out the way  and will end by saying the vat man at 34 per 1000 gets more out of the job than me   cheers  george

Spot on !

i am feeling the market out but you do not want to pay for the quality of the components      get a trader to tell you how much for 28 gram for clays and 28 gram for game  then ask him why the difference   cheers  george

 

[Jim Wheeler]

jim on my life i have spent more money on crisps  than what you quote above  if thats the best they can do far better close the doors  and go and shoot some pigeons

I have no idea what you mean by that comment?  more money what ?

My  knowledge is not big on shotshell manufacturers, i know Eley/maxam , who own Rio, saga, and others have huge capacity.never mind Hull, and a dozen others,  and of course, Winchester, and a few dozen others also make lots. must be hundreds worldwide.

SO, you sound like you make millions too ? or what? you do not seem keen to supply a reasonable priced product for clay shooting.

 

[propercartridges]

Perhaps he is making and selling plenty of clay cartridges, just not to us. He mentioned in an earlier post about delivering 45,000 to someone (unless he was referring to game)...

the 45000 was collected by one fella from cambridge and another from  lowerstoft   one is a pawnbroker the other is a motor trader   and thers another 16k made for them now with copper shot at 230  will be down south to cambridge soon if any of you want some delivered  cheers  george

 

[Jim Wheeler]

Incidentally, George, this video is a factory in US for Rio. its 2 years ago, but still; 



They make a Million a day !

 George, do you make your own shot? If so, what process do you use ?

 

[propercartridges]

50 minutes ago, Jim Wheeler said:

Incidentally, George, this video is a factory in US for Rio. its 2 years ago, but still; 

no but can make 12000 per hour as long as you can feed it with the componets  i have a box of 25 coming off every 6 seconds   running at 10 000 per hour am lifting a slab of every minute of 250  made done printed and boxed   i like to do on a good fine wheather day 100 000   not bad single handed eh   now my shot again is the best towerdropped   polished shot and good weights around 28.20 per cart     3 ton a day it uses   like feeding a elephant strawburrys    where u from  cheers  george

 

[Hamster]

George you still haven't answered a plain question, how much can you do a thou for shells no better or worse than Eley Superbs, nobody is asking for cheap cartridges just competitive quotes. We have already informed you that £200 is what FBlack cost and so did Superbs till a couple of weeks ago so no point in changing to your supplies unless they're appreciably cheaper (in money).

 

[propercartridges]

George you still haven't answered a plain question, how much can you do a thou for shells no better or worse than Eley Superbs, nobody is asking for cheap cartridges just competitive quotes. We have already informed you that £200 is what FBlack cost and so did Superbs till a couple of weeks ago so no point in changing to your supplies unless they're appreciably cheaper (in money).

ok hamster first tar very much for my intruduckshun   now go to kingo post  superbs at 231   georges at 200 delivered inc post     is 31 pounds not a good discount buy 10k of mine at 2000 or the other at 2310   thats  310 save the best part of1600 carts for nowt  what more do you want    so as said before  wait till month end also i will try to buy some cheaper bits and pieces and knock the lead back from 28.20 to 27.5   so to day 200  end of story   cheers  george