Review of “Shotgunning: The art and science” - Bob Brister ISBN-13 : 978-1602393271

[Lloyd]

 

“Shotgunning: The art and science” by Bob Brister was the first book on shooting that I bought and was for me at least was the obvious choice.

The book is described as authority and that no other book can make the claim of being scientific, the works being based on years of testing.

Personally, I found the book disappointing. It does not really delve much into the laws of physics or ballistic nuances, rather its more of a rudimentary ‘Fred in the shed’ study and lacks the robustness of well designed experiments, cross referencing and peer review that scientists would normally see as a de facto procedure.

That said, despite my disappointment for the lack of due process, it does make interesting reading in parts.

One of the issues I have with this subject is that we humans make broad assumptions about physics based on what is easily observable. There’s nothing wrong in that and it’s quite normal, but it is however a deeply flawed way of understanding what is actually going on.

Its not that we are stupid. On the contrary, our brains are very good at making rapid decisions based on the inputs of sight, sound, smell, touch. In fact, I would say if this were not the case, we would find shooting near impossible, and thus Shotgunning is really an art, while the really physics exist, they are near useless when it comes to killing the target.

As a simple illustration, below is a screenshot of two droplets (about in this case 2mm across) of liquid, connected by a thin conduit. It is quite usual for even the most knowledgeable to assume that fluid would flow from the larger droplet to the smaller one. The fact is the flow is from the smaller to the larger droplet.

This counterintuitive action can be observed and can be calculated, but our intuition is contrary to the facts. The second image shows a “race” whereby the small droplet wins the race, despite the fact that it is filled the last in the pipette game sequence.

This I believe is commonplace in shooting in that what we often think is correct may not actually be so.


 

 

[ColinD]

I think you may be over thinking all this clay shooting stuff  Lloyd, you've found a good coach listen to him and practice practice practice.

Had a lot of books with the same sort of titles on target shooting, ' the art and science' and all that, I think they only really help when you become an elite shooter(olympic standard) and then only to your coach

 

[Lloyd]

I think you may be over thinking all this clay shooting stuff  Lloyd, you've found a good coach listen to him and practice practice practice.

Had a lot of books with the same sort of titles on target shooting, ' the art and science' and all that, I think they only really help when you become an elite shooter(olympic standard) and then only to your coach

For sure, I’ve been guilty of overthinking... and under thinking too!

Hopefully I’m starting to get the balance right. Certainly I no longer think about the geometry or physics other than for academic interest. 
I don’t think about what chokes I should use (2x 1/2, set to bottom barrel first) or what shot size (7 1/2 28g for everything). I don’t think too much about foot position either.

For now, I’m really thinking only about two things. Reading the target and controlling the shot. I’ve a long way to go and as you say need to “practice, practice, practice” before I move on to any finer details.

This first year for me has been about getting things out of my system that don’t matter, or at least don’t matter right now. It’s also been about filtering out what’s not working for me, be that indefinitely or temporarily. It’s also been about getting to a point where I’m comfortable with the progress and have a plan that I can understand and believe in. It’s about having a clear direction and a way of realistically measuring progress without being distracted be inevitable ups and downs.

I think I now have that. My plan for the next year is to work only with Ed as that’s definitely working for me right now. We get on well, I understand what he’s telling me and he has sufficient authority to motivate me when I’m being lazy. I have set myself a goal of an average 80% by next summer. It’s honestly a bit outrageous, but my approach has always been set the goal high enough that you don’t suffer a drop off as you get close and you have headroom to work on. The goal isn’t then the focus, but how I’m going to progress towards it, session by session. Working out where I’m weak and focusing attention on those points until they’re a strength then looking for the next weakness.

Might sound all a bit melodramatic to be fair, but for me it’s a process that works in other aspects of my life and I enjoy the learning and self discovery that this brings.

I did the same with rock climbing back in the 90’s and though it was obvious I was never going to be competitive being only 5’ 6 3/4” tall, I did reach a level that I could be proud of and did some climbing that is still considered difficult today.

 

[Cosmicblue]

Reminds me so much of my 1st year of shooting Lloyd  - 2008-2009.   I read/watched  everything I could find on the topic in the certain hope that there had to be a set of fundamental principles, that once understood, would make this clay shooting malarkey a consistently repeatable exercise.  After all every target consists of elements of  size/speed/angle and distance  - how hard can it be???

My 1st year conclusions looked something like this:

1) Books and DVDs - not useful.

2) Tuition from coaches who can genuinely instruct is essential to improve.

3) I needed to shoot 120+ ESP targets a week to maintain progress.

4) Shooting at grounds where you can hit the targets might be satisfying but teaches you absolutely nothing - then I discovered Edgehill shooting Ground near Banbury, nothing was easy to hit there (still isn't to this day).

5) Shooting with people who are better than you is really important.

6) The score doesn't matter.

7) With an analytical mind/professional technical occupation it is very easy to overthink everything.     Choke choice and expensive cartridges when you are starting out make diddly-squat difference as it is a total mind-game.   If you miss - the lead was in the wrong place - simple as that, don't blame any of the myriad of variables.  Shoot the cheapest carts - almost anything that goes bang does the job perfectly.

8) Have fun!

 

[Wonko the Sane]

It has been many years since I read Mr. Brister's book.  To his credit as I recall he made some attempt to put to rest some OldWivesTales and bring some reason to the discussion.  Seems as tho at the time I was impressed that he did not promote any BS as was not the case with the general press at the time and even later.  And he did it on his own.  If people take issue with his scientific rigor perhaps they should fund studies that are more to their expectations.  As did Mr. Winston for example.

just a thot

 

[Lloyd]

@Cosmicblue 

I concur 100%
 

@Wonko the Sane 

Indeed I believe you are correct that would take some funding.

Alas I have neither time or money, but nor the inclination to better understand that which I believe I now know will be of no practical use.

That is the actually thepoint I was perhaps clumsily and unsuccessfully trying to make.

I do not need to make any excuse for having an opinion on a matter any more or less than anyone else, no matter how well or how poorly qualified or experienced I may be. Thus I offer up mine, entirely unsolicited and open to scrutiny and criticism just as anyone else. Heck, I may even one day scribble it all down and self publish it and make a small charge and claim I have some secret sauce as others have done and many still do.

It is as they say a free country 

just a thot

 

[bisondan]

Just listen to Ed and do what he says, worked well for me.

 

[Wonko the Sane]

I do not need to make any excuse for having an opinion on a matter any more or less than anyone else, no matter how well or how poorly qualified or experienced I may be. Thus I offer up mine, entirely unsolicited and open to scrutiny and criticism just as anyone else. Heck, I may even one day scribble it all down and self publish it and make a small charge and claim I have some secret sauce as others have done and many still do.

I was not criticizing you in particular.  Lacking any evidence all that any of us have is opinions.  Personally of course I hold no more authority than that which I give myself.  Substantial as that may be  :bow:    And as you note putting those opinions to pen is a popular activity.  I suspect that the reward, other than perhaps ego, would be marginal at best so I find it wonderfully easy to resist the energy expenditure and conserve that for more meaningful endeavors   :thumbsu:

just a thot indeed

 

[HedgerowPete]

My first book was Positive shooting by mike Yardley, a highly respected shooter with a good back ground and skill set.

Learnt nothing and did me no favours, .. great book though, well worth a read.

For me to improve i need a coach. I need someone working me as much as possible. You cant learnt that interaction off a you tube video or a paper page. I have just finished a set of ten lessons with a BASC coach. costly but worth it. I spend on average 20 minutes every evening in the bedroom practising and 150 clays at the weekend. I have gone from a weekend shooter doing  steady mid twenties ( out of fifty) to having a decent gun with a great fit, new to me purchase with the help of the instructor to hitting bugger all, .

But i now have a gun that fits me correctly and one i could afford. I have a tremendous skill set to build off and knowledge to know what to do to get the figures climbing again. The difference being this time i am going to fly past 25 and keep climbing up to late thirty's early forties.

I totally agree with the notion you should never shoot to often at an easy ground or a regular ground and you have to push and have others around you to push you. but then again a ground or target to difficult brings back a weakening of your confidence.

As for the OP posts on the book, its one i read a while back. its worth so much  for its information but not its cover price. what that figure is is up to your own preferences

 

[Lloyd]

@Wonko the Sane though I admit I assumed your comments were directed at me, I certainly didn’t take them to be hurtful in anyway. 
It may not always appear to be the case, but I do indeed respect the opinions and experience of all posters here. In particular those who have put in the mileage. 
 

It’s in my nature to challenge and question everything, even those things of which I have no doubt. I’ve been proven wrong on too many occasions to remember to not listen, even if I am biased; no... I am biased, but to temper such biases one has to retain as open a mind as possible. 

 

[Wonko the Sane]

one has to retain as open a mind as possible. 

so you have a hole in your head?

It seems to me that M Yardley has a good hold on things and I have referred people to his books many times. 

JMO of course  YMMV

 

[Lloyd]

so you have a hole in your head?

A few