Riddle me ree

[tiptop]

do remember also,, that all scoring, entries to the comp, and general admin, is down to CPSA,, and not Steve Lovett, he and his fellow people set the course up, and supplied the bacon/egg rolls, and clays to shoot .he also cannot control the weather. hats off to a job well done, even if i was not there,, ,,,,,,,,,,

Steve Lovatt runs and sets some of the best shoots you will ever get to shoot.

 

[philmoss]

I dont have too much to say on these forums BUT the amount of so called experts who dont actually shoot registered shoots but are very vocal from their armchairs amazes me !!!

Dont talk the talk, walk the walk ........... then you can actually live the dream !!!

Then you can be in a position to comment, be critical or supportive  :smile:

 

[Ian Lawrence]

I dont have too much to say on these forums BUT the amount of so called experts who dont actually shoot registered shoots but are very vocal from their armchairs amazes me !!!

Dont talk the talk, walk the walk ........... then you can actually live the dream !!!

Then you can be in a position to comment, be critical or supportive  :smile:

Now that's a sweeping statement that pre-supposes you know of the record to whom it is aimed. It's good to know who you're talking to sometimes?

I am assuming it is a dig at me, as I have previously stated on here and elsewhere that I do not shoot registered competition, am not a current member of the CPSA, and I have been vocal about this particular matter.

It would be true to say I am vocal from my armchair, but that is a matter of necessity through injury and illness these days. However, I do have some experience of the matter having shot The British most years between 1975 and 2004, my last being at Southern Counties in that year. I estimate I have shot it at least 25 times and if that doesn't give me some reason to put my personal view across on here, then it's a sorry old world. I have witnessed the change in rules and the emergence of this qualifying idea that was originally brought forward in the hope of attracting media interest coupled with the backing of larger sponsors (Remember Embassy?)

You could say I have walked the walk, and indeed walked all the way back. But that is no concern for on here. I do however, remember the pleasure of shooting The British in the days when you just had to shoot better than anyone else, just the once, in order to win, and I remember the bitching and bickering that ensued when the "Professional Committee Men" became involved in order to bring the Association into the 20th Century from being a members club beforehand. Since the change there has been nothing but discord right across all matters relating to the CPSA, a result of all the Committees containing those with their own agendas. I have served on CPSA Committees at County and Regional level in the past, and I have been a stand-in on occasion at National Level. To say it felt like hitting my head against a brick wall would be an understatement due to all the burocracy involved. I have also attended the National AGM on several occasions and, as you know, not many can say that!

I feel right that I have been critical on this issue. It is my personal opinion, but what bugs me is being told I have not got the right to comment by anyone who has set themself up as some sort of overseer, particularly one who has a vested (Business) interest in keeping the profits flowing in their direction. Unfortunately that is so typical of shooting forums in general. Perhaps Phil you would give us some of your constructive views as you are clearly deeply involved in competition?

I will not comment further on this matter, I have made my views known. :wink:

 

[tiptop]

I dont have too much to say on these forums BUT the amount of so called experts who dont actually shoot registered shoots but are very vocal from their armchairs amazes me !!!

Dont talk the talk, walk the walk ........... then you can actually live the dream !!!

Then you can be in a position to comment, be critical or supportive  :smile:

Just for the record I shoot registered shoots week in week out every Sunday, some times 2 shoots, and mid-week shoots when I can make them.

Shot the British sporting and sportrap last year, and actually came away with money from the sportrap, so don't assume that just because people don't agree with some things that they are not out there taking part.

We enter comps big or small because we like shooting...don't we?

Yes we do...

Although the smallest, teeniest, weenist piece of competitive streak that we have(and we all have it), when you have entered, and qualified your little secret desire is to win, walk away with the gold medal. I don't care who you are it's true.

 

[Jim Wheeler]

 i have a question,, for purely interest sake, and Ian may be able to say,,, how many shooter`s took part in the British  open in say 1975 or so ? and over how many days was it? i understand that over a 1000 guns at this year`s ?

( i can say that in SA in the 80`s , people were turned away over  a 2 day FSP of 200 targets. 3 years ago your lucky to get 50 guns ! )

 

[Clynt]

Maybe it's time for the CPSA to take a survey/poll of all it's members ? with it's next pull publication, on how the majority feel the placements should be sorted for the prize structure !! 

When I shot the English this year Richard Bunning's 117 was not beaten over the shooting days , but he is not champion !! now for me personally that is not right , I know we all know the rules yady yady ya and no doubt Richard does comp-licitly BUT is it right really ?  

The British for me ran better than any English or British I have ever attended ..... target quality not in doubt at all , but who gets where and what does seem to depend on a whole lot of luck on the day and who is where and shooting good or bad .

Being one of the biggest shoots in the calendar every effort should be made to be fair for all . I have often thought that AAA-AA should shoot on the same day but even that could back fire if the weather hoolied and a B class shooter on the top of his/her game shot the winning score a day later . The crucks of the problem today is sorting a qualifying score system if you are to continue with the finals day scenario....

spoke to Steve Lovatt early weds morning and fair play he said 113 would do it ...    don't think it's straight forward to get it right but at least we are not out there for 4-5 ....no doubt there are many with views on what is best but with out trying all of them we will never know ???

 

[tiptop]

We may all agree to disagree here, it really is how you view/interpret the wording "Qualifier" and/or "Qualified for", what you deem to be fair, but I will leave you with this scenario, which has actually happened from this years B/O championships.

The top 6 shot have shot, and the top 3 places on the podium have been decided, so lets see what happened.

The 3rd place from the overall winners was AA class and that is where he qualified, the overall top 3 are removed from their Class/category, the other 3 are returned to their class/category.

So who wins the AA class now that the class H/G has bee taken out. Is it the runner up of AA, should they have been promoted in AA, that had qualified to shoot that class? No it's a gun that qualified in juniors. So now we have someone that never qualified in that section the winner, but at least they are AA. Is that fair? You decide.

But then what happens.

The 3rd overall that was removed from their class as winner, you would think that they would also be removed from their category, but no, suddenly they reappear and are the winner of the junior section that they never even qualified in, and the person that was given the AA class win, that they never qualified in don't forget, also reappear as the junior runner up.

So in summing up, the people that get dealt the wildcard entry can win stuff that they have not qualified in, and moved all round the class categories, taken out of class put back in, in category, moved from category to class and then back again. To me that's all wrong. If we are going to stay with the wildcard entries for colts, junior, vets, etc then fair enough, but when you run 4 days of qualifying then that is where it should stop in my book, whatever hand you get dealt with for finals day, should be the hand that you play, and not have the dealer reshuffle the pack.

Carry on discussing people, just remember it's only peoples views and opinions.

 

[Jim Wheeler]

 i have a question,, for purely interest sake, and Ian may be able to say,,, how many shooter`s took part in the British  open in say 1975 or so ? and over how many days was it? i understand that over a 1000 guns at this year`s ?

( i can say that in SA in the 80`s , people were turned away over  a 2 day FSP of 200 targets. 3 years ago your lucky to get 50 guns ! )

would still like an answer to this,,,, the relevance will be clear when numbers of shooters is known.  thanks.  

 

[40UP]

 i have a question,, for purely interest sake, and Ian may be able to say,,, how many shooter`s took part in the British  open in say 1975 or so ? and over how many days was it? i understand that over a 1000 guns at this year`s ?

( i can say that in SA in the 80`s , people were turned away over  a 2 day FSP of 200 targets. 3 years ago your lucky to get 50 guns ! )

1976: West London SG 601 entries, 3 days.

 

[Rosso]

Its as simple as this. When you book on and pay your money you are asked what you want to shoot in. Ie class, vets, super vets, juniors, birds only, ladies, etc etc etc.

Then you stay in that for the entire shoot and finals day.

I cannot make head nor tail of any of this and glad I shot so bad that I was not there on Sunday.

 

[Jim Wheeler]

wow ! that was quick  thanks 40UP!

so roughly the same daily total of +_ 200 odd.

 so someone changed the rules/format, assumed to be CPSA then ? why? as it ran ok before? or did it NOT run ok,, necessitating a change in format?

 

[tiptop]

Its as simple as this. When you book on and pay your money you are asked what you want to shoot in. Ie class, vets, super vets, juniors, birds only, ladies, etc etc etc.

Then you stay in that for the entire shoot and finals day.

I cannot make head nor tail of any of this and glad I shot so bad that I was not there on Sunday.

Thats far to simple though

wow ! that was quick  thanks 40UP!

so roughly the same daily total of +_ 200 odd.

 so someone changed the rules/format, assumed to be CPSA then ? why? as it ran ok before? or did it NOT run ok,, necessitating a change in format?

Probably something to do with the weather. pmsl. :smile:

 

[philmoss]

Now that's a sweeping statement that pre-supposes you know of the record to whom it is aimed. It's good to know who you're talking to sometimes?

I am assuming it is a dig at me, as I have previously stated on here and elsewhere that I do not shoot registered competition, am not a current member of the CPSA, and I have been vocal about this particular matter.

It would be true to say I am vocal from my armchair, but that is a matter of necessity through injury and illness these days. However, I do have some experience of the matter having shot The British most years between 1975 and 2004, my last being at Southern Counties in that year. I estimate I have shot it at least 25 times and if that doesn't give me some reason to put my personal view across on here, then it's a sorry old world. I have witnessed the change in rules and the emergence of this qualifying idea that was originally brought forward in the hope of attracting media interest coupled with the backing of larger sponsors (Remember Embassy?)

You could say I have walked the walk, and indeed walked all the way back. But that is no concern for on here. I do however, remember the pleasure of shooting The British in the days when you just had to shoot better than anyone else, just the once, in order to win, and I remember the bitching and bickering that ensued when the "Professional Committee Men" became involved in order to bring the Association into the 20th Century from being a members club beforehand. Since the change there has been nothing but discord right across all matters relating to the CPSA, a result of all the Committees containing those with their own agendas. I have served on CPSA Committees at County and Regional level in the past, and I have been a stand-in on occasion at National Level. To say it felt like hitting my head against a brick wall would be an understatement due to all the burocracy involved. I have also attended the National AGM on several occasions and, as you know, not many can say that!

I feel right that I have been critical on this issue. It is my personal opinion, but what bugs me is being told I have not got the right to comment by anyone who has set themself up as some sort of overseer, particularly one who has a vested (Business) interest in keeping the profits flowing in their direction. Unfortunately that is so typical of shooting forums in general. Perhaps Phil you would give us some of your constructive views as you are clearly deeply involved in competition?

I will not comment further on this matter, I have made my views known. :wink:

Ha Ha Ha............ :angel: :angel:

Just goes to show how some people are so fickle, the 2 responces that i have had never for 1 minute came into my mind when posting !!!

Yes, im deeply involved in competitions, but as i never entered this years B/O (previous engagements prevailed) i am totally unavailible to give my comments & views on this years event 

Still, keep thinking & writing.......

:bye: :bye:

 

[Sixpackjack]

Never entered the BO but would like to in due course.  Surely the problem of class/category multiple entries could be solved by allowing multiple entries.  If you want to enter class, ladies, juniors, veterans or whatever then you need to pay all the appropriate entry fees.  You are only going to shoot one set of birds but if you want multiple entries into prize pots then you should pay a prize pot entry fee for every category/class that you enter.  This is what happens in rifle shooting.

Perhaps to solve some of the class/category issues would be that once you achieve A or above classification you shoot your class,  be it a colt, junior, vet or lady,as far as I am aware they all shoot the same clays as the rest, young shots/ladies just starting often shoot  against AA/ AAA shots, I can see no incentive for them,  in a sport that needs new members we should be encouraging young shooters, a colt etc shooting 40+ only to see there category won by a 90+ must be crushing, won by a 60+ gives hope, there is nothing like a bit of success to get them hooked, ask anyone would doesn't fish and they will tell you " tried it once, didn't catch anything" 

 

[schmokinn]

That makes a lot more sense, thanks for explaining. I have no idea how they come up with that format, to be honest I can't see it makes any sense at all. 

since when did the cpsa make sense!

 

[move-mount-miss]

Was the riddle ever solved?

 

[Clynt]

It's in the same file as the full prize list of who won what ??