Setter shooting their own targets

[unplugged]

We have been having some discussions "across the pond" of Target setters shooting their own targets for score. In the NSCA is against the rules for a "designer/setter" to shoot for score, if they've set the targets. In the above video Mr.Digweed state "there is really no advantage to setting the targets "as he hasn't shot them in advance."

Yet at around the 1:45-2:00 mark he shows the subtle angle on a straight away target (so slight curl) and say "we hope to catch a few out" that will shoot straight at the target. (and without saying it, not realizing it has some curl!) 

First do you think a setter has an advantage shooting targets they have set?

And is it fair for a setter to compete on "his/her" own course. (that which they have set)?

Cheers  

 

[Steve Lovatt]

I think if a setter shoots his own clays for birds only or practice this is fine but under no circumstances should they be able to win money or titles on their own shoots , particularly in Fitasc sporting as now you don't have to disclose what type of clay it is on the menu board !!!

but it does go on and happen over here , personally I also think practicing courses before a shoot is acceptable either even with slight tweaks being put in 

steve

 

[Will Hewland]

I think if a setter shoots his own clays for birds only or practice this is fine but under no circumstances should they be able to win money or titles on their own shoots , particularly in Fitasc sporting as now you don't have to disclose what type of clay it is on the menu board !!!

but it does go on and happen over here , personally I also think practicing courses before a shoot is acceptable either even with slight tweaks being put in 

steve

did you mean NOT acceptable?

 

[Iggy]

I'd assumed so too....

 

[Jim Wheeler]

sure Steve means not acceptable ! i did course setting for years,, FSP ,, it was hopefully done to  a high standard, and within the rules. it was also done with a helper or two, and then checked by a jury to look for any irregularities .  certainly no hint of "cheating",   (but i did have some reservations on `club` shoots,, sometimes set by a b` or a` shooter,,, who then shot 90+,instead of 70ish !)   this is to ensure that the setter CAN shoot the comp,,,,,,,,,,,,

i looked at the video, about right ! i have no sound on my pc,,, so nice to see subtitles !!!!

 

[EdSolomons]

Very simple in my mind, if you set the shoots feel free to shoot them, as targets only, not registered, no prizes and no trophies.

anything else I see as being very bent.

 

[Jim Wheeler]

Very simple in my mind, if you set the shoots feel free to shoot them, as targets only, not registered, no prizes and no trophies.

anything else I see as being very bent.

yes, you may well be correct,,,, must say my comment is from a SA background,, not so much local, (UK<< Europe)  difficult to `bend` rules with about 1000 shooters ,, .versus.,,, up here  :smile:  not used to local attitude, especially the bent bit, ! 

 

[Will Hewland]

I was involved with the course layout at EJC a few years ago and they were clear I wouldn't be allowed to shoot it for a reg score etc.

 

[FloodDefence]

Not sure where I stand on this. My local Saturday morning shoot is of superb quality, near enough registered shoot standard and would even say better than some registered shoots I've attended. But whilst this setter can present some very testing birds he's not so good at hitting them, just over half marks would be a very good day for him. Our sporting (Welsh) selection shoots usually take place using only 3 grounds, one of which is owned/run by one of our top shots who obviously needs to shoot the course to qualify himself but will always go out last and so I'm told will even throw the shoot, ie. if HG is 95 and he's on for 96 he'll deliberately miss a few. That said this guy can shoot and performs well anywhere so I wouldn't say setting the targets is particularly advantageous to this guy either. In fact I shot FITASC at his ground and he had a go at a target that was being dropped by a lot of us and missed the first 4-5 himself which we all found highly amusing. Like I said not sure what to think of it.

 

[Finners]

As with any question of this nature, ie where there's a sniff of impropriety, I would say it's more a matter of how it would be perceived by a non partisan byestander. To my mind, the very fact it's been asked, rather suggests the question answers itself really.

 

[Rosso]

Pretty sure the last Prem shoot at Owls Lodge was shot by its owner as he was also in the shoot off at the end and I think got 2nd place. 

 

[RichW1234]

Pretty sure the last Prem shoot at Owls Lodge was shot by its owner as he was also in the shoot off at the end and I think got 2nd place. 

No RF didn't shoot it as against the PL rules but he was allowed a stand in! He shot in the shoot off as he was tied for 2/3rd overall and this needed to be determined but 100% did not shoot his own course.

and the 3 stand course used for the shoot off was altered by someone else too... :smile:

 

[wylye]

Even 'targets only' is unacceptable I'm afraid. The score counts against averages the same as a 'competition' result. Its feasible that any sponsored prizes could be won by this mythical person too. Check the rules.

 

[Rosso]

No RF didn't shoot it as against the PL rules but he was allowed a stand in! He shot in the shoot off as he was tied for 2/3rd overall and this needed to be determined but 100% did not shoot his own course.

and the 3 stand course used for the shoot off was altered by someone else too... :smile:

so his stand in's scores counted towards his total which he then had a shoot off for on his own ground but the targets were altered by someone else. Have I got that correct?

 

[RichW1234]

Yes, the rules state the course setter can't shoot his own course but can nominate a stand-in which he did otherwise the team is a man down! Once the overall results were sorted from the series he was tied with DG for joint 2nd so a shoot off was required. We decided on a 3 stand shoot off (you know, as you were there) and the shooting positions/traps were altered by someone else which was deemed a fair way to settle matter.  

 

[Rosso]

I am not being critical. Nothing wrong with any of this. They can shoot their own grounds for all I care. Did not know about the stand in! Strange rule that, never heard of it before especially as other grounds numbers were down. Still his ground his traps his layouts just set by someone else. He is good enough to win anywhere but especially on his own ground. Just an observation. 

Enjoyed the series and a great effort from the CPSA for putting it on, it will no doubt evolve into an event which will be highly regarded.

 

[Rosso]

I would pay for Steve Lovatts round to see him shoot one of his own shoots for all the pain he's inflicted on me and others. ? ?

 

[RichW1234]

BTW the PL 2016 team registrations will be open soon with Sporting Targets & Barrow Heath joining the series so keep an eye on the CPSA website ??

 

[Hamster]

Wow another non existent problem for us to worry about, :lol:  I loose about as much sleep about who Jordan is going to marry next.