Shooting without chokes

[Darkside]

I can't disagree with your diesel tank test but what I can say is that there is no more open than non existent constriction, that being Cylinder, negative flair out choke is non sense marketing. Think about it, if I choose not to screw a negative choke in, I am in fact benefitting from a massive negative choke anyway, that being the blue yonder atmosphere once the pellets leave the barrel.

The Cylinder choke has no constriction, that means it is the same as the barrel (to all intents and purposes), therefore the only thing you achieve by not putting a choke is liberating the shot a half inch earlier into the air, that is all - negative choke does not exist. There are Tulip and other add on gadgets that do work but they were designed for skeet and I believe have been banned in any case but they act on the shot and wad whilst they're still within the barrel.

https://www.bingle.com/webhp?hl=en&sa=N&tab=lw&authuser=0#authuser=0&hl=en&q=table+of+choke+constrictions

I have just searched for choke comparison charts and without exception they all list Skeet as having some constriction, Cylinder being termed True Cylinder as in parallel. Now it's entirely possible that Beretta have cooked the figures and swapped names around on their HP range between Skeet and Cyl but established rules still apply. 

This link explains it http://berettausa.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/43 Edit because beretta are crap at lists and I am crap at reading them.

Hammster, your tecchy knowledge has let you down, read your statments high lighted in red, then open the link from timps post...if you can't be bothered, here's the figures...

CHOKE DESIGNATION 12 GAUGE

MOBILCHOKE

OPTIMA-CHOKE

Xfull Turkey

0.665

0.675

 Full

0.695

0.694

 Light Full

N/A

0.702

 Improved Modified

0.700

0.706

 Modified

0.705

0.716

 Light Modified

N/A

0.718

 Improved Cylinder

0.715

0.724

 Skeet USA

0.718

0.727

 Cylinder

0.723

0.732

Skeet European

0.730

0.759

 Bore

0.723

0.732

Optima bore 0.732

Cylinder        0.732

Skeet            0.759

Still stand by your statments in red Hammster?

As for your statments high lighted in blue,

1. Get facts right, HP chokes are not 1/2", they are 3 1/2", 7x as long as you state.

2. The differeance is, when the shot is 'liberated' into the blue yonder, it is not subject to the pressure of burning gasses propelling it up the barrel at 1200+ f.p.s. before it has left the last 3 1/2" of barrel, the choke or lack of it has some sort of effect on the pattern...fact.

 

[Hamster]

Darkside,

Did you bother opening up any of the links I put up ? The internationally accepted norms for constrictions say CYL is the most open at .732, Skeet has some constriction, Beretta have decided to twist things around for marketing purposes and you fell for it, nobodies fault it happens. 

All I'm saying is unless you can impart some influence onto the shot/cup whilst inside the barrel the most open you'll get is CYL, removing the CYL chokes does not convert the threads into a Vortex opening them up, it may appear a feasible thought that it may but it does not like a great many other thing in shooting. Others who have taken the time to test this say it doesn't, that's fact. If threads opened up patterns then why hasn't Teague come up with a choke featuring threads at the end ? Negative choke is almost laughable, how much more negative do you need than atmosphere itself ?

 

[Darkside]

Eh? Read this slowly Skeet 0.759 Cylinder 0.732

 

[Darkside]

Shot is not under pressure in the atmosphere...

 

[** Pending Removal **]

ZzzzzzzZZZZZzzzzzzZzZZZZZ

 

[SoR]

ZzzzzzzZZZZZzzzzzzZzZZZZZ

Wake me up when its over. ....................zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[Hamster]

Eh? Read this slowly Skeet 0.759 Cylinder 0.732

Read it even slower, it makes no odds.

http://www.teagueprecisionchokesltdshop.co.uk/store/Beretta-Optima-H.P-Extended-SKU75.html

http://www.briley.com/berettaoptimaplusspectrumportedchoke-1.aspx

Like most things in life if you want to find the answer follow the money. If you click on the links you'll see that two of the most famous after market choke manufacturers list all their wares with CYL as the most open. These guys don't miss a trick when it comes to parting you from your money, just look at the vast range of odd and colourful options they have to catch you out.

If any of them thought for a moment that they could produce patterns more open than no constriction Cylinder then rest assured they would offer it and I would be the first to buy them.

Skeet .759 exists only in the head of some marketing joker deep in the valleys of Italy, it is not real world.

Look up any number of tables and charts for chokes and percentages, they will all begin with 40% for Cylinder, when you find a verifiable one that mentions Negative G Force 35% and NegNeg 30% etc let me know. 

If you Neg a choke and continue Negging you'll eventually arrive at 90 degree angle Neg to the barrel, i.e, Cylinder, see. Presumably you can carry on Reverse Negging by peeling the choke front edge backwards so you pull the trigger and smack yourself in the face with pellets ? 

 

[Hamster]

Shot is not under pressure in the atmosphere...

It is on this planet.

 

[Darkside]

Your not!!!

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Dum de dum de dum

 

[Casey-Gee]

Get a room...!!!!


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[MikeB]

If you really want wide open patterns without the risk of damaged threads get an FAC and try rifled chokes. They are known to give slightly more open patterns than TC

 

[Salopian]

Nicola, that is the first few bars of the Archers theme tune! I thought we were talking about chokes? Or was it to pacify Darkside?

 

[Darkside]

...Darkside has her on mute.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Don't you start on me.....I checked out of this boring thread ages ago.....and went of to Madrid to win lots of dosh.

Only looking in to see if you girls have kissed and made up.

(P.s. Those who read all this out there, think you are all mad and do not respect your guns......we did laugh...just saying..!)

 

[Gene Holmes]

So the answer, as I suspected, is don't do it.

Like I said, I'm not into choke swapping, so leaving 1/4 & 1/4 in for now.

That could all change after lesson with Ed tomorrow.  :biggrin: