Shotguns on public transport

[RobertBeard]

The shooting organisations and MP's should be made aware of these issues, terms & conditions and specific incidences.  

If Nicola says that a ban was sought two years ago and they backed down then that certainly isn't the case now as its found its way into print in their T's & C's and they are implementing them!

 

[Dunc]

Hockey stick bags are ideally shaped and do not draw any attention to the carrier or themselves.

 

[Bramble]

Just a small anecdote...many years ago, (I know things have changed and the world is a very different place) I used to hop on the 198 bus from Hillingdon to Uxbridge, visit a junk shop in Cowley Mill Rd. and buy one or two old sxs 12 bore shotguns. With these tucked under my arm, uncovered, I would then catch the bus back home...no drama. Paid about £1 10 shillings each for them.....such carefree days..... :biggrin:

 

[Finners]

Extract from s19 the 1968 Act: 

19  Carrying firearm in a public place.

A person commits an offence if, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse (the proof whereof lies on him) he has with him in a public place

[a loaded shot gun,

an air weapon (whether loaded or not),

any other firearm (whether loaded or not) together with ammunition suitable for use in that firearm, or

an imitation firearm.]

I'm not a legal expert, but have a pretty decent understanding of the Law.

Dealing with the obvious first - It's clear the OP would have "reasonable excuse" given the plan to use the Guns at a shoot. And clearly it's illegal to carry a loaded shotgun in a Public Place (ie a place not authorised) 

So, for me the important words here (in the context of the question being asked) are "loaded" and "without lawful authority" 

But I would say "lawful authority" in this context means having your  Shotgun Certificate with you. But it could also be deemed to mean having the permission of the (in this case) train operator. 

However, if you check if the train operator has a list of items banned from being carried, and if Shotguns/Firearms do not appear on that list, then I would argue that you are ok to carry a shotgun provided it's covered; you have no ammunition with you and are carrying your Shotgun Cert. 

However, I'd agree that it would better if it was carried in such a way so as not to draw attention to it. 

Having said all that, here's what the Home Office advise:

"If firearms are transported on public transport they
should be covered in a suitable slip/case and
remain with the holder at all times, except when
carried on an aircraft, for example." 
 
Helpful? 

 

[AW13]

Hi, slightly OT but I think relevant, a newbie question:

The above is very interesting but it got me thinking about cartridges.  

Do you carry them with you on public transport or buy them when you arrive at the shoot?

What about excess [unused] cartridges, do you sell them back or take them home?

 

[Hamster]

In the early 80's we thought nothing of taking cased air rifles on trains, once brought a pair of ferret kits back with me and couldn't resist playing with them  and no end of people would stop and chat. A friend and I entered the very first Air Gun World organised field target competition and got there by train and even had free lifts from the station to the event. 

I used to regularly walk 4-5 miles to two different shoots of mine back then with the cased air gun slung on my shoulder and only ever got stopped once by the police who let me go as soon as I said I was seventeen. 

I'd be a little nervous about carrying a broken shot gun in a sack though although have carried the stock and action on their own. 

 

[Finners]

Hi, slightly OT but I think relevant, a newbie question:

The above is very interesting but it got me thinking about cartridges.  

Do you carry them with you on public transport or buy them when you arrive at the shoot?

What about excess [unused] cartridges, do you sell them back or take them home?

Not too sure what the actual legal position is, but I'd be inclined not to carry a shotgun and cartridges in a public place. 

 

[Aris]

Get an old hardcover guitar case - use foam inserts cut out to the correct shape. Just don't wear the Beretta or Perazzi cap!

 

[RobertBeard]

In the pdf I posted above I did not notice but there is another table which specifies that Unloaded Guns are permitted at the discretion of the individual train companies.

In the case of First Great Western and South West Trains I am told that they use the the NCC rules and have no tighter rules of their own and so WezC should have been permitted to travel.

Worth complaining Wez?

 

[chippy]

Its a sad state of the times when we. shotgun and FAC holders who are some of the most law abiding citizens have to hide the tools of our hobby away.

 

[Jan Powell]

If you ask a train operating company if you can bring a gun on board the clown on the other end of the phone will obviously say 'no'. Be discreet and you'll be fine.

 

[Will Hewland]

Get an old hardcover guitar case - use foam inserts cut out to the correct shape. Just don't wear the Beretta or Perazzi cap!

Avoid Beretta cap. But nobody outside of shooting has heard of Perazzi..

 

[Jaykaysea]

Don't set me off on ferries....

Discretion better part of valour, have no ammunition, hope no-one recognises it is a gun, keep the fore-end apart from the barrels and stock. 

You are at the mercy of jobsworths here, you can't really argue it Isn't a dangerous good....

 

[Gene Holmes]

As I suspected, it's not clear cut.
Which is both worrying and bloody annoying. We have to go through a process to legally own a shotgun, but have to resort to clandestine measures to transport them.
The National Rail guidelines go as far a mentioning what is and isn't allowed, but add a caveat at the end effectively letting the train operator decide what they do and do not allow. Which I guess will almost always come down to a decision by a different Individual on the train at the time, who will make their own judgment anyway regardless of any central regulation.
For my own situation, I guess I have a couple of options.
Take the guns in the breakdown cases and hope that no one takes any notice, or, which is probably the route we will take, pack the guns into our suitcases and nobody will be any the wiser. Although how I get 32in barrels into a roll on will be the subject of a new topic.
Thanks very much for your feedback and links to documents.

 

[Salopian]

'Going North, King's Cross Station', by George Earl, 1893

 

[Macc Ladd]

As I suspected, it's not clear cut. Which is both worrying and bloody annoying. We have to go through a process to legally own a shotgun, but have to resort to clandestine measures to transport them. The National Rail guidelines go as far a mentioning what is and isn't allowed, but add a caveat at the end effectively letting the train operator decide what they do and do not allow. Which I guess will almost always come down to a decision by a different Individual on the train at the time, who will make their own judgment anyway regardless of any central regulation.For my own situation, I guess I have a couple of options.Take the guns in the breakdown cases and hope that no one takes any notice, or, which is probably the route we will take, pack the guns into our suitcases and nobody will be any the wiser. Although how I get 32in barrels into a roll on will be the subject of a new topic.Thanks very much for your feedback and links to documents.

. There goes the debate on length of barrel !!! 24" is best you can get them in a suitcase

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Tunnel is much better than ferry if going to France. No problem with gun or ammo.

Ferry.......trouble with ammo.

Hover or the Ali hulls.......no cartridges at all.

I never use a boat now, always the tunnel.

JayK....poor thing, thought they would know you by now with the amount of times you cross (ya can't beat a jobs worth !!!)

Well done by the way with you great score in the wet.

 

[Jonny English]

How about, find local RFD in Scotland, post your guns up on courier to RFD, collect guns and purchase cartridges. Return to RFD afterwards and post guns back to local RFD at home. Not the best solution possible, but it's an alternative option. Ring round for prices, I''ve been quoted between £10 and £20 each way before. Could save a problem with the packing and an argument with jobsworth at the train company.

 

[Salopian]

How about, buying return tickets for yourself , wife, maid , butler, chauffeur, and barrister, arriving complete with English Setters and Harris Hawk on arm and seeing how you get along then.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Pointer.....please.....just saying :wink: