Should we abandon 'Bird Only'

[Salopian]

Wylye, read the first post and do the maths.

It depends what your percentage birds only to competition is.

Obviously if you have a higher percentage competition entries it won't work.

But I am told that where given the choice the majority will elect to go birds only.

 

[EdSolomons]

I don't know, but round my neck of the woods birds only are in a noticeable minority. I'd guess 20% but it may vary region to region.

 

[tiptop]

I don't know, but round my neck of the woods birds only are in a noticeable minority. I'd guess 20% but it may vary region to region.

Just looked a shoots results that declare full results and who shot birds only, the last two were 22.9% and 25.6% birds only.

 

[tiptop]

I see there was a few oop's bird's only at garlands on sunday

 

[TobyM]

Could I enter birds only as a male shooter? Surely that's sexist?

 

[RobertBeard]

Most grounds dont openly display cash prizes on offer so nobody seems to know who will win what anyway ( bit of a tangent that rant )

With entries on the day a ground operator won't know how many entries he's going to get on the day overall, let alone per class apart from past history. I daresay that's why there are some iffy comments about prize money because the entries were not big enough. It should be possible however to have a table of entries per class giving the number of places and the cash prize to each dependent on the number of entries not shooting birds only.

As we have seen from posts on here grounds have to provide a good service, with traps that work, presenting a challenge, cafe with good breakfast so shooters will quickly desert a ground going down hill as better can be found elsewhere. Some grounds have given up comps just to do teaching/coaching/corporate/stag & hen parties.

Surely we need to keep grounds in business if we want to keep shooting and the more shooters that contribute to that the better even if it is on a birds only basis because that only reduces the prize fund not resources for the grounds. For me the satisfaction is in winning or doing a new PB etc. I would not stop shooting if there were no prize money.

 

[wylye]

Wylye, read the first post and do the maths.

It depends what your percentage birds only to competition is.

Obviously if you have a higher percentage competition entries it won't work.

But I am told that where given the choice the majority will elect to go birds only.

I think your view of the situation is slightly skewed. There is no evidence to suggest that b/o entries are as high as you think. Maximum 30% but nearer 15-20% most of the time. The number of b/o entries has no effect on the grounds revenue, it is the same regardless of which type of entry the customer chooses. Prize money does not belong to the ground, it belongs to the winners of various classes on the day. The amount of prize money is displayed at the time entries close so there is no mistaking where it goes.

So why would entry cost be reduced if everyone shot b/o?

 

[Kentskeet]

Could I enter birds only as a male shooter? Surely that's sexist?

What about "Angry Birds Only" for my wife?

 

[tiptop]

You dont need to go to a registered shoot to shoot good targets the likes of kibworth,sporting targets,southern counties are all open this sunday for esp practice amongst other disciplines and im sure there targets wont be straw baler dolly ups.

Comps are comps.... practice grounds are for practice.

 

[Mr Potter]

A complex and emotive subject, I think most peoples views are subconsciously coloured by their perception of their chances of finishing in the first 3 of their class.

I think I've always shot competition because I've always thought I had that chance of a return but this may change as I'm currently on course to achieve my ambition of making AA class at the next cut-off. Realistically if I do get into AA I can wave goodbye to those little brown envelopes so do I start going birds only? Well at the moment I think I'll still enter the comp (though I don't think I'd try any less if I was birds only), this may change as time goes on and I'd rather that decision was taken from me by only having competition entries.

There are two shoots I frequent reasonably regularly which have disappointingly low competition entries, Shugborough (now Oakedge) and Catton Hall. I suspect that it is at best a 60/40 split (birds only to comp entries) at both those grounds. Oakedge have recently doubled the high gun money to £200 paid by the ground with all the competition entry monies going into the classes pot. It would be interesting to see if this move increased the number of entries and/or increased the ratio of comp to b/o entries. I doubt if it will have much of an impact, realistically if there are 100 entries at a shoot the winner will come from possibly 5 shooters and the other 95 know that. Make the H/G prize £1,000 pound and you might pull in all the AAA class shooters in the country but you wont get a single additional C, B or even A class gun there. Shooters who have traditionally entered birds only surely wouldn't enter the comp just because the H/G prize has doubled when they haven't a snowball in hell's chance of picking it up.

Think if the CPSA banned birds only there could well be a backlash, certainly at some ground, from birds only shooter. Puts the ground owner in a difficult position when a punter puts £30 on the counter and says "I don't want to be in your poxy comp, do you want me to pick that back up and walk away" I've seen it done on a number of occasions over a £2 levy at a county selection shoot. The ground owner didn't turn them away!!

Mr Potter

 

[paulos]

I don't see what the fuss is about. Even if everybody went competition, you're still not going to get rich from this game. Even a £100 HG barely covers your day when you factor in entry, shells, fuel and scoff. If that missing 20% of B/O shooters put their £5 into the pot it would still only add about £100 (based on 100 entries) into the pot - spread across 4 classes (£25 each), paid down to 3rd-4th place (Less than a tenner per person). Is it really worth the faff?

 

[Salopian]

Good points well made Mr. Potter.

My figures are taken from Kingsley, Catton, Oakedge, and numerous other grounds around Staffordshire, Cheshire . Shropshire. Last week at one ground it was 96 entries with 23 competition entries. I think Kingsley has noticed a move to birds only and also a considerable fall in entries.

 

[tiptop]

Good points well made Mr. Potter.

My figures are taken from Kingsley, Catton, Oakedge, and numerous other grounds around Staffordshire, Cheshire . Shropshire. Last week at one ground it was 96 entries with 23 competition entries. I think Kingsley has noticed a move to birds only and also a considerable fall in entries.

If it were to go comp only and no birds only where would all these people go to, to enjoy their sport.

 

[Salopian]

What came first, the chicken or the egg?

 

[paulos]

Eggs existed before chickens.

 

[paul b]

i heard a bloke moaning that basford was having a 100 bird comp this month (which they have every 5th sunday)instead of the normall 75,so i asked what diferance does it make so he said its because he stoped going kingsley when they stoped 75 bird shoots as it cost to much for him to shoot the extra birds.Money is very scarce at moment so folks who still want to play have to make it as cheap as possible,in my opinion dont shoot registard untill you win hg at your cheaper straw bailer then go comp and try and win some cash so you can do another .

 

[wylye]

If the sole purpose of shooting is to make money then people are in the wrong sport. There are only a small handful of people making money from their shooting skills, we all know who they are, the rest of us must treat it as a pastime and enjoy it for what it is. There are lots of ways to enjoy clay shooting and only a few involve shooting organised competitions against lots of other people. This is always going to be relatively expensive because of prize money etc. and if this is not affordable then find another way of doing it, -say with a bunch of mates and a hand trap for instance. If you want it bad enough there is always a solution.

 

[Keyboard Warrior]

Good points well made Mr. Potter.

My figures are taken from Kingsley, Catton, Oakedge, and numerous other grounds around Staffordshire, Cheshire . Shropshire. Last week at one ground it was 96 entries with 23 competition entries. I think Kingsley has noticed a move to birds only and also a considerable fall in entries.

( sigh ) Becareful what you wish for ( Kingsley , Catton , Oakedge ) Birds Only grounds ,set up for birds only people .. dont take that away from them or they will struggle to keep going !

Its a sport for everyone , lets keep it that way .

 

[Les Graham]

( sigh ) Becareful what you wish for ( Kingsley , Catton , Oakedge ) Birds Only grounds ,set up for birds only people .. dont take that away from them or they will struggle to keep going !

Its a sport for everyone , lets keep it that way .

Well said mate.

 

[salop sniper]

As someone who is a birds only shooter, am happy to explain exactly why I am a birds only shooter.....

* I find serious competition spoils most enjoyable things. Cheating and aruing starts.

* The extra cost of the clays I cant justifie and will never be in any prize money to make any return.

* I have no interest in winning anything .....prize money or silverwear.

* I soley use clay shooting as fun and to improve my shooting for when on live quarry.

* My attendance is not regular and is patchy so i couldnt climb a ladder if I wanted to.

* I pay my money to BASC for insurance and am not paying a penny to CPSA, I feel BASC is a far better option IMO for me.

* If competion and higher prices came I would either invest in my own clays and a trap or would just shoot on live game only having a good amount of practise behind me already.

ATB

Matt