Shouldn't there be a glut of cartridges?

[Aris]

And if so, shouldn't prices be down?

 

[Lloyd]

And if so, shouldn't prices be down?

I’ve been finding cartridges harder to come by recently, though getting easier by the week.

I have no idea if any of the cartridge manufacturers stopped producing or furloughed staff, but it would make sense to have done so in my opinion.

Also, I’m not seeing why cartridge ps would be cheaper if there was a glut. Ok, I get the ‘supply and demand equilibrium’ thing, but that’s really high school economics. Stockpiled cartridges manufactured before lockdown would have cost the prevailing rate at the time of manufacturing.

If lockdown showed a drop in the price of raw materials (it did), then I’d say maybe... cartridges recently or now being manufactured could be cheaper as a result. Though a manufacturer might point to increased costs of workplace health and safety measures are offsetting the savings and maybe even need to put prices up.

Also, the cost associated with running down a plant and starting it up again are often quite high.

The only reason I can see that cartridges would be cheaper is if a manufacturer or distributor were having cash flow issues and needed to liquidate stock urgently.

 

[tiptop]

Why, as a manufacturer/supplier, reduce the price when you have non-perishable goods without a sell/use by date. Wouldn't make any sense. As for a glut, I would have thought production would have been reduced.

 

[Hamster]

Same for fuel prices, the bastards reduced it to just over a quid and now they’re squeezing us dry by a massive price rise. Shells are the exact same.

 

[MartynB]

Don’t forget that any stock sitting in the warehouse costs the producer money  . They won’t have held any excess stock  when the shooting grounds closed I don’t know what the stock turn of a cartridge manufacturer is but I bet it’s quite quick  perhaps 10 or 12 times a year ? Obviously they may build up bigger seasonal stocks for game shooting. I’d have thought rather than a glut , those buying in overseas components and powders might even be looking at production problems . As far as pricing goes they’ll charge what the market can stand . We are   the mugs that drive that listening to the high brass ,  triple ring shock absorbing piston wad, 1900 FPS ,  chrome shot hand polished by Tibetan Monks sort of bollocks . 

 

[Lloyd]

We are   the mugs that drive that listening to the high brass ,  triple ring shock absorbing piston wad, 1900 FPS ,  chrome shot hand polished by Tibetan Monks sort of bollocks . 

Literally had me crying with laughter!

So true too in my opinion.

That said, I have been lured by Gamesbore blue diamond, because I do find them quite soft. Probably a placebo.

This was after me shooting 250 of each back to back with Hull 100 which I felt were quite firm.

Prior to this experience I could hardly tell the difference between 21g and 28g let alone between different manufacturers/velocities.

I’m sure I’d be just fine with any cartridges though, (except maybe the Hull 100). CompX are absolutely fine. Express, no problem. FBlacks, RC.... you get the picture?

I guess I could be saving 5p per shell, but I’m happy with what I’m doing.

I can’t see there being much opportunity for real innovation with real measurable, discernible results. So unless there’s a price war, I can’t see cartridges being much cheaper than the cheapest available. And if there were to be a price war, it would be a race to the bottom. Seems to me cartridges are really almost a fixed commodity item with small margins on big volumes. It’s baked beans business.

I have to agree, and differences will be small and the marketing bollocks behind them large.

Good job I’ll never likely shoot well enough to be sponsored by anyone... I’m not of the right mindset

Would love to hear what an insider wouldn’t be allowed to say on this

 

[Wonko the Sane]

Prices go only in one direction at any opportunity.  Have you ever in your entire life ever seen the cost of living numbers ever decrease?   I mean, EVER??

 

[ColinD]

No wonder those Gamebores are expensive, they've got diamond shot, bet it catches the light lovely when you break the clay

 

[westley]

Same for fuel prices, the bastards reduced it to just over a quid and now they’re squeezing us dry by a massive price rise. Shells are the exact same.

That's why I buy Esso  !

 

[Paul120]

Prices go only in one direction at any opportunity.  Have you ever in your entire life ever seen the cost of living numbers ever decrease?   I mean, EVER??

Fair point.  Although sometimes it works in your favour as to sell things to us they have to put wages up. I mean consider how much was your house was when you bought it and the mortgage repayments  at the time. I bet they seemed unaffordable. A few years later you can not only find it more easily affordable  it but can consider paying it off early.  Not saying excessive or hyper inflation is good. But low ior no nflation can be just as bad especially when you invest. 

 

[Lloyd]

No wonder those Gamebores are expensive, they've got diamond shot, bet it catches the light lovely when you break the clay

Graded five times too no less!

and shinier than the shiniest shiny thing from shinyville during the shiny festival 

measured them shot  with a micrometer I did. For those that don’t know, a micrometer is like a G clamp but with numbers on to make you look more cleverer.

biggest variation in shot size... sorry, biggest variation in shiny shot size of any cartridges I’ve cut open and measured in my non shiny, very dull and annaly retentive nerdy life.

Still makes them there clays vanish though 

PS... try saying “shiny shot size” after a few measures of 16 year old Lagavulin 

 

[Wonko the Sane]

measured them shot  with a micrometer I did. For those that don’t know, a micrometer is like a G clamp but with numbers on to make you look more cleverer.

I certainly hope that you didn't scratch them doing that

 

[Luke_(NL)]

I hear its pretty hard to scratch diamonds.

 

[Will Hewland]

I’m reliably informed that one major manufacturer has real problems obtaining imported primers etc so certain cartridges are barely in production. This will drive prices up if anything 

 

[ColinD]

Or they find an alternative, problem being for the one with the shortage, if you find an alternative you seldom go back.

Well that's been my experiance with Target shooting, a manufacturer brings out ammo that's good at a sensible price, then slowly increase the cost over time. Because low and behold a lot of people are using it and they think profit, increase it until it matches the premium ammo cost, as it must be worth it loads of people are using it

People then just move onto the next brand doing the same thing, leaving the now expensive stuff on the shelf.

 

[Cosmicblue]

Topically, I actually work for an American software house that sells pricing software - or Revenue Management if one wants to be fancy over it.

So in pricing a key attribute is the customer's 'willingness to pay'.  It follows therefore that the market could be flooded with cartridges but if we punters don't react with "nah, not paying that" then the prices will hold up.

If you were able to analyse cartridge sales volume by cost you'd likely find that the sales volume increased as you moved towards the cheaper brands, with sales volume decreasing as the price point increases because of a decline in the 'willingness to pay'. 

 

[Aris]

You hear about low margins, but that is for the retailer.  The manufacturers make the bigger money.  This is how Proper Cartridges came about.  He noted that shot costs the same by weight regardless of size, yet game cartridges with larger shot sizes cost considerably more.  He saw a business opportunity and manufacturers game cartridges.

Clearly there is a competition problem in the cartridge market as when input prices go down (like lead) - you would think that one of the manufacturers would bring prices down and others would follow.  Nope.

 

[Cosmicblue]

You hear about low margins, but that is for the retailer.  The manufacturers make the bigger money.  This is how Proper Cartridges came about.  He noted that shot costs the same by weight regardless of size, yet game cartridges with larger shot sizes cost considerably more.  He saw a business opportunity and manufacturers game cartridges.

Clearly there is a competition problem in the cartridge market as when input prices go down (like lead) - you would think that one of the manufacturers would bring prices down and others would follow.  Nope.

Nope - it's all back to 'willingness to pay'.  It is the same problem for manufacturers and their distributors/retailers.  In the Just Cartridges example that's simply someone saying I can make more profit if I own more of the supply chain.

We actually see it in every aspect of our daily lives but are often unaware of it, the the buyer's perceived value of the brand that is under consideration has a considerable bearing on how much we are prepared to pay.   

Supermarket vs Shell or BP fuel  is a good example.   Jocker budget cartridges vs Gamebore  - both go bang and break targets consistently - one costs more than the other. Why?

Brand awareness has a massive effect on willingness to pay.   The most valuable company in the world today is Apple.  The products are fairly average compared with the competition however the marketing that supports the brand is simply iconic, the ability to create objects of desire is so powerful people have been known to sell bits of their bodies to be able to say "I own an iPhone".   The willingness to pay amongst the incredibly loyal customer base exceeds every other brand on the planet -  without equal.

 

[hofk]

Its all down to marketing and who wants to pay for the badge or the box they come in. Also the ones that sponsor the so called top shots with free or discounted cartridges  somebody has to pay for them at some point. And that is normally the average club shooter having to pay more for their cartridges.