Sporting with no refs

[chippy]

I shot a 100 bird super sporting last sunday we had no refs, we were squaded into 6 man squads with a squad captain, the buttoning and scoring  was shared among the squad.it seemed to work well.what do you think a good idea to keep costs down or a recipe for cheating? chippy

 

[Hamster]

If it was a money shoot then to be honest I wouldn't be too happy overall, particularly since they'll likely just carry on charging standard money anyway./wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-confused.gif 

 

[VicW]

I suggest that the biggest problem with this system at registered and other competition shoots is not having a referee who,allegedly,knows the rules for the discipline being shot and who,allegedly, has the authority to enforce them.Self buttoning and scoring works well on practice shoots,it is self regulating in that your friends aren't going to give you kills you haven't got in case you beat them.You are,however,on trust to only shoot what you have paid for.This is why Claymate Pay and Play systems are used at some grounds and why some shooters don't like them because they can't cheat. Vic.

 

[optima]

No don,t like self marking at all,where theres prizes,money etc  theres always some one who,ll cheat

 

[Robo]

optima said:

No don,t like self marking at all,where theres prizes,money etc  theres always some one who,ll cheat

 Im with you Optima... self making  bound to bring out the cheats /wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-yell.gif

 

[ExSCA]

Agree - there are enough problems with self marking even when there ARE refs - so when there is money and serious competition I'd prefer everything handled independantly.

 

[optima]

I,ve stood behind people at self marking shoots before,and their mate misses the target, they say have another go that was a no bird when there was nothing wrong with it,rather pay the extra and have refs!

 

[Maxum]

I prefer shoots with refs full stop. Enough to think about just shooting let alone having to button and score as well.

 

[chippy]

Hamster said:

If it was a money shoot then to be honest I wouldn't be too happy overall, particularly since they'll likely just carry on charging standard money anyway./wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-confused.gif 

your right there hammy it was £36 entry but good prize money chippy

 

[EdSolomons]

Was it won with 100 straight!? £36 I'd want refs and someone to clean my gun afterwards!

 

[chippy]

EdSolomons said:

Was it won with 100 straight!? £36 I'd want refs and someone to clean my gun afterwards!

No high gun was 103/wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-laugh.gif Suprisingly the scores looked about right 92 high 87 in A 82 in B 76 in C chippy

 

[Bill]

By and large, shooters are an honest group. That said, without refs there would be people that would exploit the game. Magical chips seen from friends shots etc. I also think it adds some needless pressure to those in the squad who would rather just focus on shooting and not every outcome.  More than anything, it could get awkward. 

 

[TobyM]

If it's registered compeition, I want refs.

 

[GlenPresley]

Problem is the CPSA need to re-define 'a ref' at registered sporting comps. By that I mean a 12 year old bum who doesn't give a monkeys about shooting or know anything about the rules just to get 20quid for a few alcho pops on the weekend, doesn't really classify as 'a Ref' to me. It should be competent person with a reasonable understanding of the rules in my opinion.It is impossible to have certified refs up and down the country at registered events every weekend. To be honest it is a discussion which has been on the agenda for the last 10years and never solved. If the sport is looking to grow and move forward there needs to be an overall starting point that all grounds stick too. Problem is CPSA needs to get them on board and this is hard. I wouldn't want the CPSA telling me how to run my business so any ideas out there??? Glen.

 

[TobyM]

Good points Glen, I mean take Four Counties, my nearest ground and you've been there recently. For their 70 registered they have a mix of scorers. Some are teenage girls who to be realistic about it are more interested in texting between shooters and thinking of boy bands, rather than standing their ground if they score a miss. I've seen one change a miss to a hit when she was told "he killed that". She's not going to argue, is she?On the other hand they have very experienced and competant refs who you respect and their word is final. No idea what the answer is personally.

 

[optima]

GlenPresley said:

Problem is the CPSA need to re-define 'a ref' at registered sporting comps. By that I mean a 12 year old bum who doesn't give a monkeys about shooting or know anything about the rules just to get 20quid for a few alcho pops on the weekend, doesn't really classify as 'a Ref' to me. It should be competent person with a reasonable understanding of the rules in my opinion.It is impossible to have certified refs up and down the country at registered events every weekend. To be honest it is a discussion which has been on the agenda for the last 10years and never solved. If the sport is looking to grow and move forward there needs to be an overall starting point that all grounds stick too. Problem is CPSA needs to get them on board and this is hard. I wouldn't want the CPSA telling me how to run my business so any ideas out there??? Glen.

yes must say scorers at some shoots seem to be getting younger and younger and don't know the rules,i was at a reg shoot few weeks back young girl scoring, lady shooter in front missed first bird out second target was a no bird so pair again,you can guess what happened killed both and got pair killed,now who amongst us would step in and say thats  loss  kill and cause a scene,i didn't.At the same shoot last year simo pair ,young marker,only one target came out and the marker gave it as a kill and gave the pair again,though in fairness the shooter pointed out this was wrong but there's plenty who wouldn't./wp-content/forum-smileys/sf-yell.gifAnd as we all know one target can be the difference between winning and losing

 

[GlenPresley]

I think the CPSA has to improve it's networking with the grounds and come to a common solution with them.The aim, if the sport is to go further must be fully certified referees at all registered events then there will be no more excuse for comments on cheating or referee bullying.That is a long way off though and at the moment all grounds should be responsible for training their staff correctly on the rules and for situations of bullying by shooters.I know this is easy to say but to often do we see people who are on a stand scoring and they really do have no clue at all.The CPSA gets the brunt of the flack for not enforcing it's rules and checking up on grounds. Then we have the grounds who cry costs will be too high I can't get 10 or 12 qualified refs etc. My suggestion would be for the CPSA to have a meeting with all Ground Owners who hold registered sporting competitions ask their opinions on scorers and refereesand detail the problems and issues the members have with current set ups.Then to come up with a re-draft on scorers and refs-Something detailing training and signoffs of staff to show they are capable of scoring and have a good understanding of the rules. In some cases I am sure some kids just need 20quid on the weekend and turn up and don't give a crap but the grounds still employee them as they are cheap labour.The danger which is really real is that the grounds turnaround and say we don't need the CPSA we can hold open comps anyway and still make a good profit. Something has to change though or we will continue to discuss this for the next 10 years as well Glen.