Stock Drop for Trap Disciplines

[ips]

Until two years ago i used this style apart from the bent knees it just seemed natural.

 

[sidney]

I would guess the idea is to stop you moving your head or using arms and shoulders to get the gun moving.

 

[ips]

To be honest i think it was because i had no coaching as it wasnt really available in early 80s as it is now and my first gun a winchester based parker hale 803 had a quite a straight grip therefore it kind of naturally fitted that way. I shot with very high right elbow for well over 20 yrs and was renowned for having an unusual style but it worked for me until a few years ago when due to constant sciatica and a neck problem as a result of fencing (sword not fence) made me adopt a more upright style. I must say that this American bent knees style looks very fatiguing and i bet when there older they have joint problems.

 

[Wonko the Sane]

I have no direct knowledge but from observation and reading comments from US coaches it seems to me that they are not really on the right track. Results seem to bear out their approach being wrong.  Or at least not right enough.  That may change with the most recent change in admin but who knows.  A couple Italian coaches could take care of that I'd bet.  Or maybe just a short film clip of the Italians shooting.  I know I just stood watching the Italian shooters for a while and thought WTF have I been doing?

It has always puzzled me how unnatural postures that need to be "learned" came to be considered the true path.  I mean, biomechanics is not a mystery.

JMO of course

Charlie

 

[sidney]

I'm no expert but in my humble opinion the more relaxed your body is with the gun mounted the more controlled and smooth you will move, the same as golf, cricket and many other sports. I'm never a fan of the extreme awkward looking styles. Just looks painful and tiring... But then again I'm not a top shot so perhaps that's where I'm going wrong! To be fair in the last few years there have been quiet a few USA shooters in Issf wc finals, so can't be all bad. Turned out to be an interesting thread this!

 

[Andy S]

I tried the high elbow style and all I found was it made the gun recoil into my collar bone which was not good, I have changed back to a low elbow style which is more natural for me.

I had a round of OT at Owls Lodge yesterday and hit 18 out of 25 using the same gun comb height setup as for DTL, didn't think I was missing due to too low a comb height though.

 

[ips]

Sidney is absolutely right IMO one of the most important aspects of sound trap shooting is being relaxed, any tension will hinder gun swing. And from my experience anything that doesn't need to be there or be done will get in the way.

 

[jwpzx9r]

I watched a guy shooting UT on Saturday who had a stance and mount that defies the convention! He stood on the peg facing straight ahead he is aright handed shooter. His feet.. well the front foot was at about 10 oclock and his back foot ..well it wasn't a back foot it was to the side at about three oclock and his entire body lent over to the left hand side at an angle of about 20 degrees off the vertical, he honesty looked as though he would fall over it was weird ... the result 25 straight! Another guy had a stance as though he was about to take part in a sprint race low with the front foot well out in front of his rear foot which was almost in line.. result 25 straight! I said to my brother if that guy went to a coach the could sort his stance out and then just laughed. These guys have never had a lesson in their lives but they can knock the targets down. They then went over to the OT stand and made some more gravel out of clays. I spend so much of my time assuming the right stance etc because I know how important it is and although I am improving I have a way to go to reach these guys who stand as though they have a deformity of their body!

edit

 If I had had a vid camera you would have been give a very amusing show, how the guy who leaned over reached the 45 degree left right I do not know he did take it early though so that may have helped!

 

[ips]

Ha, yes there are many un conformist styles. I think the main thing is doing whatever feels natural and comfortable to you so that you can forget about it and just concentrate on seeing the clay. The text book methods are benchmarks or starting points. IMO its a bit like the car analogy of at first you learn how to pass your test then you learn how to drive

 

[40UP]

Greatly gifted shots often develop contrived ways to prevent themselves missing the occasional target. Vigano tried to explain to us that the Italian team spend their time not on how to hit 23 but how to not miss the other two. That is why you see so many gun lockers in ISSF finals.

 

[ips]

. That is why you see so many gun lockers in ISSF finals.

Gun Lockers ??

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Vigano.......now there is a top shooter...!!

 

[40UP]

We asked of course where do you look? and he says he doesn't have to look he just sees the target but talks of transfering his energy out to above the traphouse before calling - Les will like this we're getting mystical again. The thing about errors - he talks of a checklist, are my feet ok, are my hands ok, is my face ok, go. This seems a plan to eliminate errors as does the very firm lock-down that many international shooters adopt.

 

[Hawkeye]

I only shoot trap disciplines occasionally but this thread is very informative. Thanks all

 

[ips]

I only shoot trap disciplines occasionally

Do more, its addictive

 

[Les53]

We asked of course where do you look? and he says he doesn't have to look he just sees the target but talks of transfering his energy out to above the traphouse before calling - Les will like this we're getting mystical again. The thing about errors - he talks of a checklist, are my feet ok, are my hands ok, is my face ok, go. This seems a plan to eliminate errors as does the very firm lock-down that many international shooters adopt.

Yes Fred, that's what I do........then it's......bang....bang......bugger!!!!!

 

[jake.keeling]

We asked of course where do you look? and he says he doesn't have to look he just sees the target but talks of transfering his energy out to above the traphouse before calling - Les will like this we're getting mystical again. The thing about errors - he talks of a checklist, are my feet ok, are my hands ok, is my face ok, go. This seems a plan to eliminate errors as does the very firm lock-down that many international shooters adopt.

Lets get mystical! it makes a nice change from the over technical side of things.
This not really looking has happened to me, always after shooting well I might add. After a round, I couldn't honestly say where my eyes where and I usually know exactly. Haven't managed to put my Chi out there into the field yet, but I know a guy who says he can feel the clay pulling on the end of the barrel how's that for spiritual!


http://www.tirovesti.co.uk/

 

[ips]

Jake

i know exactly were you are coming from. I have said many times before that when i shoot particularly well i have no idea what i did. This i believe happens when you are fully focused on seeing the clay and nothing else.

 

[SARZY]

Very interesting. Glad I started the thread.

Have come to a conclusion after some practice, Pushing through the target is more effective and a lower stock helps the old grey matter to connect with this.

 

[jwpzx9r]

Derek Burnett.... to my eyes his gun mount routine is perfect. No grinding or ramming the stock into face or shoulder, no reaching down the comb like you have a giraffes neck, gently into position, nice and relaxed. Very good to watch.

I watched that guy shooting a world cup comp what a fantastic setup routine. I have tried to adopt an abbreviated version of it because if I did take that long I think I would get complaints, some people already think I take too long! Now if I could get the result he does well.....!