The craze for increasingly High Pheasant Shooting

[ChrisPackham]

They say 410 is the gun for experts, I think it does a fair job for egomaniacal bullsh*tters too.  :lol: :lol:

I agree.. and hearing shot hit a bird and seeing it easily fly on is a huge indicator of lack of capability.  Not just me either, others who used the gun found the same, I can't see how 'experts' make shot hit harder..

 

[ips]

its a ruddy pop gun, ballistically incapable of clean kills above 20 yds and I don't care what anyone says to the contrary

 

[FreeShot]

When you play around with an electronic range finder it sure gives you a different perspective on our "manufactured reality".  :lol:

Pattern 36g, Hull #4, Pheasant Extreme Plastic wad, through factory Full (.031) Inv + at 40m (43yds) - I'd call it my max, give app 10% for an error i.e. 45m or 50yds. looking against the sky this is way up there:

P.S. Stand next to a 13 storey building (like St Botolph in London) and look up - that is 50yds

 

[Hamster]

Pattern 36g Hull Pheasant Extreme Plastic wad, through factory Full (.031) Inv + at 40m (43yds) - I'd call it my max, give app 10% for an error i.e. 45m or 50yds. looking against the sky this is way up there:

I'm not an advocate of Full on normal clays but there's little doubt it does come into its own at extended ranges especially on going aways - that pattern looks the business by the way. 

 

[FreeShot]

Yes HPX is a nice cartridge - just for the record and out of context - it is interesting how close to full (0.031) a 1/2 choke (0.012) gets you - same load at same distance:

 

[Salopian]

Freeshot,

 Thanks for the pattern pictures .

The half choke photograph shows that it is perfectly acceptable for Game shooting at a sensible distance .

Full choke at shorter distances would possibly damage the meat too much .

People need to realise that there is a difference between a going away December **** Pheasant and a going away edge on clay.

32 Gram SHOULD be enough for everyone .

 

[EdSolomons]

A contentious issue for sure. For me I have no problem with the so called high bird shoots providing people attend tooled up correctly and have a good knowledge of what THEY are capable of. On the higher stuff it can indeed be killed pretty consistently with the right gear, and although there will of course be pricked birds (as there are with lower stuff and 30g 6s) I'd like to bet that most of the stuff is cleanly missed as usually it is the shooters skill that runs out of gas before the cartridge if appropriate shot is used.

we all have different comfort zones, there are birds I won't shoot at even when I'm shooting high stuff (so 3/4 choke and 42g 3s Ultramax) as I'm not confident of a kill. As long as people stick to what they know I don't see a problem. Incidentally I know there are plenty that don't, and that is more of the problem.

i don't see shooting the very high stuff as any less sporting than shooting the more local stuff, personally I can't think of anything less interesting than seeing pheasant and partridge lumbering over inside 30 yards (which if people could judge range acurately is the upper limit of most run of the mill shoots) getting poleaxed by a team of guns, irrespective of what choke/load they shoot.

i see the problem more as more of a personal control issue, if you aren't up to high stuff that's fine, practice on clays or take an instructor with on the day to assist. If you are a tidy shot and shooting 2:1 or 3:1 on regular stuff maybe try and try the next level up and see how you go!

 

[ips]

good, fare and honest post Ed ?

 

[paul b]

Eds summed it up well,most of my game shooting is rough shooting and i haven't the experience on realy high stuff to know where to throw the shot so generally leave anything out of my comfort zone on beaters day,but i have seen some very high birds hit with 4s in the chest and keep on going,but im sure a head shot would of brought them down,it would take a good shot to evaluate that whilst taking the second shot to finish that kill.

So i guess its about eago and being realistic about your skill level.

 

[Jeremy Baker]

Having thought about this thread a lot I think we need ask why we go game shooting? 

I have been at shoots to stand disgusted as half the team of guns were leathering twenty yard birds in clouds of feathers thinking they were the bees knees. 

Transversely I have shot days where guns think the quarry is impossible but I have had a cracking day. 

Its hard to quantify but I do not think there is a craze for High Pheasant but there are guns (me being one) who want to challenge their skill level on birds that are harder to kill. 

I am not a bloody thirsty killer so prefer quarry that tests my skill (and the level of my equipment) to the max as I can shoot 2:1 shoots and there's little pleasure in the shooting aspect apart from the day out with Buddies and friends and the enjoyment of the day.

So I want to be tested. 

I am not sure I am making much sense but in the short time I have been shooting I have wanted to be the best I can in all areas and finding more challenging birds is part of that journey in improvement.

I have some days like this in the next two weeks planned so have spent time and a lot of cash in getting the correct gear (chokes and shells). 

The shot ratio at this shoot was 7:1 average with the best in the world standing in the line so I expect to be challenged. 

 

[EdSolomons]

I hope you bring your 32g 5s on Monday! ?

 

[Brand New]

I work my dogs on a commercial shoot in the westcountry. The shoot is famous for its high birds driven off the combes. 9-1 would be a normal ratio of shots to kills. Sadly some of these guys have never shot high birds before. Had a team from Texas few weeks ago who had a fantastic day but shot 1958 cartridges for 137 birds. Had the manager of a football club last week who had never held a gun until a clay lesson the day before the shoot(he had an experienced minder) He shot 12 birds.

When picking up with my dogs, I dont think we get more runners on the high bird shoot than on  the standard bird shoot. I think Ed is right in saying that the high birds will be killed by the good shots and the rest wont even get close.

 

[MDP]

Probably a stupid question, is there a guide anywhere to the effective range for different shot sizes? So for example, shot number 5 upto xx metres on pheasants. I know velocity etc is going to make differences, so just a guide... I've asked around and got different answers from different people.

 

[Darkside]

6 shot 40yds

5 shot 60yds

4 shot 80yds

3 shot 80+

 

[ChrisPackham]

There is a calculation around shot energy (mass times velocity) BUT I think the big challenges are ability and pattern density to kill CLEANLY and CONSISTENTLY.

Each to their own, BUT if I was the best shot at anything of all time ever (and I'm not, but I know my limits) and I had a15% or 10% success rate will god knows how much 'winging' then I wouldn't shoot.

To me it shows contempt for quarry, you cannot guarantee a clean miss especially if you are trying to hit..  If you want to test yourself and expect a high failure rate may a clay ground could create the answer.

I don't want to upset anyone, eAch has their own opinion and I'm sure there are some amazing talents on this site, I just question the moral of shooting something that you risk fatally (eventually) wounding on 6 occasions out of 7.

If game birds were fluffy like deer a 15% success rate would NEVER be tolerated.

 

[Doctor Lecter]

its a macho thing  most of the time  ,  while we are on this subject  lets not forget to respect our quarry  ,    I don't like  bow hunting  , and don't agree with large driven game to rifles ,  its not for me ,   still each to their own , !

 

[Clay day]

I often wonder how many of the really high birds are cleanly killed.

If a wing is shot out at 60 yards is the bird less likely to survive the fall from say 30-40 yards?

I think perception of distance is often misjudged. I my opinion a true 40-50 yard bird is good sport.

I have had days where I have let go more than I have shot because they aren't worth it, but I have seen days where the bag hasn't been great  and by mid afternoon everything is poleaxed so people can get their fill.

 

[ChrisPackham]

I think that you sum up part of the general problem very well, no one really wants to spend £1,000 per day to watch unsuitable bird after unsuitable bird sail (or crawl past), as the day progresses selectivity tends to disappear.

 I still think that these ultra high bird days encourage unethical shooting and accept unethical ratios and I'm of the firm opinion that this is a lazy profiteering model as opposed to making an effort to show excellent sporting challenging birds at ethical heights

Each to their own, but knowingly risking injuring 80% of what I'm trying to kill really isn't for me

 

[FlyingTrotter]

http://ow.ly/aOnN3082QMA

This should be a link to Digweeds article in the Field that they posted on twitter 

 

[ChrisPackham]

Thanks for posting, that's a great article..