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It is very difficult for the OP to win his case without a complete forensic analysis of the barrels... have you any idea of the costs of that? Eye watering I suspect.
I do have an idea, yes, as it the sort of thing that comes up in my line of work every once in a blue moon. The thing is, there's a whole lot that could have been done (and said) short of a 'complete forensic analysis' that would at least clear the spectre of whether any party should confess to the occasional slip-up. Measurements and pictures backing those up are one, as everyone here agrees.   

Other than that, I'd advocate civility in discourse, as the case itself is sad enough for the OP without collateral between contributors. 

 
would it be possible to hold a raffle of some description , all proceeds to go to ant towards a repair/replacement , this is something I would happily contribute to .

 
If Ants barrels are cut just behind the choke tubes, and perhaps subsequently the bottom barrel dissected longitudely, could this give a further clue to cause?

As an aside I had short thinwall chokes made for my 3800 some 25 years ago. It was done by a firm I think called Pro Choke from Cambridgeshire, who were cheaper than Nigel Teague, but don't think have been around for a long while.

Regards

Leigh

 
If Ants barrels are cut just behind the choke tubes, and perhaps subsequently the bottom barrel dissected longitudely, could this give a further clue to cause?

As an aside I had short thinwall chokes made for my 3800 some 25 years ago. It was done by a firm I think called Pro Choke from Cambridgeshire, who were cheaper than Nigel Teague, but don't think have been around for a long while.

Regards

Leigh
Hi Leigh,

I remember Pro Choke, I believe the owner was an ex worker from Teague.

 
@jwpzx9r Now you’re asking if something is wrong with me? Really? Ok. Well, I know where that kind of ‘if I can’t win the debate I’ll increase the level of personal insult’ campaign, goes. 
 

Anyway. You again simply put forward your reduction of wall thickness as in your words put it “any engineers primary conclusion “

Is this not and example of “creating circumstances to fit your own narrative”?

I am an engineer and my first conclusion, balanced against the understanding that Teague have been modifying barrels for a good many years and this is unlikely to have been their first time. In fact I read of one such case that has been without issue for some 25 years! 

Of course Mirouku have also been making barrels for a very long time too.

An issue here outside of the original OP is you seem to make a presumption of possible root cause based on the modification. Not entirely unreasonable, save for the evidence of previous successes with such modifications. 

I as a “any engineer “ draw my first conclusion that the OEM more than likely did a job that passed muster. 

My second conclusion is that give history of success with thin walls resulting from modifications to barrels that a root cause isn’t likely to be due to a simple matter of wall thickness reduction. Ample evidence to demonstrate this.

My third conclusion is that miss-use is a possibility. Given the evidence, and respect for the OP being a person competent in the care and maintenance of their gun, I’d move on to my fourth conclusion. Manufacturing defect. 

We have been provided with a little evidence of manufacturing from the second choke tube and the manufactures assurance of quality procedures being followed. Therefore my fifth conclusion... material defect. Fifth conclusion. Not first

now having enough experience non manufacturing in genera, I believe I’m ever so slightly qualified to ask this reasonable question of “it’d be nice to have a metallurgical report” and raise the hypothesis. Now the report is a bit of fantasy to be fair as it’s cost is likely about as much as a barrel set. But again, it’s just a hypothesis and for the purposes of discussion. 

It is this which you claim is BS and bluster. For what reason is not clear, but you do have a history as evidenced across multiple threads... and yet you ask “what is wrong with me?” 

Well, I suppose the answer to that question is, kettle calling pan sooty ar$e 

After defending my position, you carry on with the same and spurious counter claims which offer nothing further other than more churlishness. 

I have over the years had metallurgical reports carried out for items of a safety critical nature produced by global OEMs of considerable resource and showing worthy due diligence and behold if it has not been discovered... a material defect. One such case, an automaker whose heat treatment process had been the root cause of a catastrophic failure. 

Now, I’ll anticipate your response being something along the lines of this being irrelevant as whatever do cars have to do with guns bla bla bla... bs... bla bla bla... bluster... bla bla bla... thin wall... bla bla bla... snowflake... bla bla bla... rinse and repeat and a helping of “la la la la I’m not going to listen to anything that may be contrary to ones own notions.

Go for it. Knock yourself out. Be my guest. 

I never shy away from a debate I find interesting and I find this case interesting. I’ll happily put forward my hypothesis, regardless of any flaws and more than open to scrutiny by peers or even would be peers, but I’ll defend my hypothesis against critique, more so if I feel such critique has no real foundation and I’m more than happy to be proven wrong. I’ve yet to be proven correct here and very unlikely to happen too, but I’m far far far from proven wrong by your blustery bs!
 

the “fact” you are unable to see the relevance as you describe it of my post and believe this to be an irrelevant narrative, in my opinion clearly demonstrates your complete lack of understanding and this renders your comments and utterly unfounded, ill informed, unstructured nonsense to be entirely disregarded  

just in my opinion of course 
 

 
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@jwpzx9r Now you’re asking if something is wrong with me? Really? Ok. Well, I know where that kind of ‘if I can’t win the debate I’ll increase the level of personal insult’ campaign, goes. 
 

Anyway. You again simply put forward your reduction of wall thickness as in your words put it “any engineers primary conclusion “

Is this not and example of “creating circumstances to fit your own narrative”?

I am an engineer and my first conclusion, balanced against the understanding that Teague have been modifying barrels for a good many years and this is unlikely to have been their first time. In fact I read of one such case that has been without issue for some 25 years! 

Of course Mirouku have also been making barrels for a very long time too.

An issue here outside of the original OP is you seem to make a presumption of possible root cause based on the modification. Not entirely unreasonable, save for the evidence of previous successes with such modifications. 

I as a “any engineer “ draw my first conclusion that the OEM more than likely did a job that passed muster. 

My second conclusion is that give history of success with thin walls resulting from modifications to barrels that a root cause isn’t likely to be due to a simple matter of wall thickness reduction. Ample evidence to demonstrate this.

My third conclusion is that miss-use is a possibility. Given the evidence, and respect for the OP being a person competent in the care and maintenance of their gun, I’d move on to my fourth conclusion. Manufacturing defect. 

We have been provided with a little evidence of manufacturing from the second choke tube and the manufactures assurance of quality procedures being followed. Therefore my fifth conclusion... material defect. Fifth conclusion. Not first

now having enough experience non manufacturing in genera, I believe I’m ever so slightly qualified to ask this reasonable question of “it’d be nice to have a metallurgical report” and raise the hypothesis. Now the report is a bit of fantasy to be fair as it’s cost is likely about as much as a barrel set. But again, it’s just a hypothesis and for the purposes of discussion. 

It is this which you claim is BS and bluster. For what reason is not clear, but you do have a history as evidenced across multiple threads... and yet you ask “what is wrong with me?” 

Well, I suppose the answer to that question is, kettle calling pan sooty ar$e 

After defending my position, you carry on with the same and spurious counter claims which offer nothing further other than more churlishness. 

I have over the years had metallurgical reports carried out for items of a safety critical nature produced by global OEMs of considerable resource and showing worthy due diligence and behold if it has not been discovered... a material defect. One such case, an automaker whose heat treatment process had been the root cause of a catastrophic failure. 

Now, I’ll anticipate your response being something along the lines of this being irrelevant as whatever do cars have to do with guns bla bla bla... bs... bla bla bla... bluster... bla bla bla... thin wall... bla bla bla... snowflake... bla bla bla... rinse and repeat and a helping of “la la la la I’m not going to listen to anything that may be contrary to ones own notions.

Go for it. Knock yourself out. Be my guest. 

I never shy away from a debate I find interesting and I find this case interesting. I’ll happily put forward my hypothesis, regardless of any flaws and more than open to scrutiny by peers or even would be peers, but I’ll defend my hypothesis against critique, more so if I feel such critique has no real foundation and I’m more than happy to be proven wrong. I’ve yet to be proven correct here and very unlikely to happen too, but I’m far far far from proven wrong by youR blustery bs!

just in my opinion of course 
 
Stop get yourself a large paper bag put it over your mouth and nose and take a few long slow inhalations then have a nap. The above is embarrassing.

 
@jwpzx9r

well, I agree and I do feel for you, but honestly your embarrassing display doesn’t tire me or bother me   It is I confess actually entertaining. Am I bad?

(more than happy to keep bringing this down to your level.)

 
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Children,children for gods sake stop this stupid petty argument. The barrels failed end of story. The whys and wherefore are not our concern.

 
Children,children for gods sake stop this stupid petty argument. The barrels failed end of story. The whys and wherefore are not our concern.
I appreciate the comment, I really do.  It children? Isn’t that just correcting a mistake with a mistake.

i don’t think either of us are children do you?

for what its worth I don’t take what @jwpzx9r says personally to heart  I’m sure he’s a nice chap if you really knew him. Most folks are actually I find. 
I would rather keep debates subjective or ideally objective and not personally, but neither am I afraid to get my hands dirty. 

I have disagreed with @jwpzx9rin other threads and agreed with him too. It’s the way conversion flows sometimes. 

My apologies if I have offended anyone, but I stand by what I’ve said

 
Wow.

A couple of days away from this thread and 20 extra posts !!

I was thinking Teague might have cut open the actual barrel &  choke but no such luck.

It would be wrong to suggest that Teague are not a professional outfit making a professional product. We all have our opinions regarding aftermarket chokes and whether they may weaken or not the barrel – the need for barrels to be reproofed goes a long way to ensuring they are safe. I have some after market Teague chokes and they have been fine.

There are numerous tests that could be carried out on the barrels in this case – my estimate would be around £4k in experts fees should get you a reasonable report on the metals, the barrels and chokes, & their cross sections and any propensity to failure given what can be deduced from the design. Clearly that is uneconomic.

I may be wrong but I think the mechanics of this failure are also easy to accept – something has got between the choke and barrels. The usual culprit is crap resulting from poor maintenance but its does not follow that is always going to be the case.

My issue with Teagues replies is the failure to cut off the barrel and remove the choke – ideally by cutting cross section and videoing the process. I’m not bothered about the other barrel – I want to see the failed one. They should too.

 
Wow. I’ve just caught up on the thread - which took a while! 😄

In terms of where we are. Teague have requested a price directly from Browning for the supply and fit of replacement barrels.

This would be at my cost.

It’s far more likely that buying a second hand MK38 and bringing my wood over will be much cheaper - however simply going through the process at the moment.

Thanks all! 

 
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They may get a better price from Browning being trade, just hope they pass it on if they do Ant

Edit: Just a thought are they asking for multi choke ones 😉

 
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Wow. I’ve just caught up on the thread - which took a while! 😄

In terms of where we are. Teague have requested a price directly from Browning for the supply and fit of replacement barrels.

This would be at my cost.

It’s far more likely that buying a second hand MK38 and bringing my wood over will be much cheaper - however simply going through the process at the moment.

Thanks all! 
Very fair call by Teague's they have tested the gun found no real fault that can be attributed directly to themselves but are willing to help you out replacing your barrels. This is way beyond what many other companies would do in similar situations. I take it that your insurers were not interested? I assumed that was going to be the least costly route for you.

 
Hello all!

Further update - I'll keep this going until conclusion. Maybe celebrate with a video of me shooting it! 😄

Cost back from Browning for a set of barrels was £2200 - clearly not a financially viable route. It also had to be shipped to Belgium!

Teague have advised that the barrel could be cut and maintained at 29" - obviously I want a 32" so I'm definitely now in the market for a second hand MK38 in 32" to harvest from.

I have provided my ideal scenario to Teague, and just waiting to find out the costs. 

My ask:

  • I will supply to Teague a used MK38, from which we harvest the 32” barrels (and action, if required)
  • Teague to fit new barrels to my damaged MK38 and multi-choke to accept my original chokes
  • Meanwhile, the original barrels are cut down to 29” and re-proofed (here I am assuming multi-choking these is asking for too much)
  • Any leftover components (e.g. wood, original barrels and action) to be returned to me
 
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If you find another MK38 won't the barrel and action have to stay together anyway as their a matched pair

 
I would ask Teague to cut the old barrels down and multi choke for the remaining chokes you have.

Just remember the barrel length does nothing for accuracy - its just balance. Getting a set of 1 inch chokes and taking 50g of wood out of the stock may get you very close to the original gun's balance. There is no harm in doing this before spending any money on anything. It always good to get your 'spare' gun right.

If that doesn't work for you I would get an MK38 with factory fit chokes - that will be cheaper. Swap your wood around etc.

You may find you don't want to remove any wood and if you do you can easily replace the weight with taped up cut off cartridges wedged in the stock bolt hole with a bit of old sock - I mean a bit of old clean sock !!!

 

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