Unannounced visits from the police?

[schmokinn]

They are welcome anytime at my home and if I am in I will happily unlock the cabinet.my area has handed over firearms to g4s to save money so if they are now going to pay the ordinary policeman to do extra visits then surely this will negate any savings.or perhaps a job for the unpaid hobby bobby's. My farm buildings have been targeted by intruders several times over the last few years and the police have been unable to attend due to shortage of manpower.I believe it is a bit on the strong side to bring us into the umbrella of terrorism which is obviously the tack they will take.as with all government the only way to tackle gun crime is to beat the law abiding legally held firearms and ignore the criminals.

sorry i can't believe i am reading this right?

your area police has handed firearms over to G4S the company that is so incompetent that they lose prisoners they have locked up and tried to defraud the government of millions.

wonderful shall we put ISIS in charge of our army...or the group responsible for 9/11 in charge of the airforce

that is just far beyond belief that i am struggling to convince myself it is possible!!

   Schmokinn

 

[Simonix]

I to have no issue with inspections, 

what I do have an issue with is the equivalent of cold calling or fishing.

Plain clothes guy or girl turns up shows me some ID (that I have no way of proving is real) and asks to be let in to do an inspection, says I have failed and they will have to remove my guns until I fix the issue and can be reinspected.

I could now be putting a gun in the hand of a criminal or terrorist! 

If someone from your bank called you and started asking for your details, passwords etc, would you hand them over?

This is a good point.

If I had a person like above turn up at my house, I would make them wait on my doorstep until I had phoned my Firearms Licensing Department/Police constabulary to check with them that they know who that person is, and that it is a legitimate visit.

On another note, If they intemd on increasing these "visits", then I'm guessing this will help the cause for certain government parties/ political groups to push for a Licence renewal price increase......!!

 

[schmokinn]

incidentally the last time my licence was renewed it was an unannounced visit...apparently they left a message on an answering machine i did not have.

never mind i wasn't bothered,nothing to hide but i think she was a little shocked to see me opening the door in my boxers at 8.30am (not a pretty sight) !!

     Schmokinn

 

[ips]

I have never had an unannounced visit but did once have two fully kitted out firearm response blokes.

 

[Les53]

I have never had an unannounced visit but did once have two fully kitted out firearm response blokes.

Well I warned you about walking about the town in those fishnet stockings Ian! You were just asking for trouble!!!!   :laugh:

 

[wynno]

I have no problems with the police turning up at my door. BUT EVERYONE should remember that you DO NOT have to let them in. They can only enter the premises if they have a search warrant or if they suspect criminal activity is going on. 

 

[ehb102]

I'm more concerned about how the Telegraph put it: 

New hotline launched in bid to spot gun owners at risk of committing gun massacres

Police urge public to report gun owners who show 'sudden behavioural changes' or 'sympathy towards extremist acts'
 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11154656/New-hotline-launched-in-bid-to-spot-gun-owners-at-risk-of-committing-gun-massacres.html

Between this and the codswallop being spouted by the CPSA's honorary solicitor Laura Saunsbury it goes a long way to demonising anyone with mental health problems. Mental health is a spectrum, not a case of "either you're 100% or you're not". This kind of rubbish does not help tackle the ignorance and prejudice that are already out there. It just stigmatises anyone who is less than 100% at any time in their life.

 

[Les53]

I'm more concerned about how the Telegraph put it: 

New hotline launched in bid to spot gun owners at risk of committing gun massacres Police urge public to report gun owners who show 'sudden behavioural changes' or 'sympathy towards extremist acts'
 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11154656/New-hotline-launched-in-bid-to-spot-gun-owners-at-risk-of-committing-gun-massacres.html

Between this and the codswallop being spouted by the CPSA's honorary solicitor Laura Saunsbury it goes a long way to demonising anyone with mental health problems. Mental health is a spectrum, not a case of "either you're 100% or you're not". This kind of rubbish does not help tackle the ignorance and prejudice that are already out there. It just stigmatises anyone who is less than 100% at any time in their life.

+1 Liz......... Not only that, but I was in the company of some shooters not so long back, one of whom advocated getting a gun and blowing away some Islamic Terrorists if they ventured into Dorset!!! OK it was only a joke of course, but it only takes one ***** to be listening who take it seriously and...................................

 

[bostonmick]

sorry i can't believe i am reading this right?

your area police has handed firearms over to G4S the company that is so incompetent that they lose prisoners they have locked up and tried to defraud the government of millions.

wonderful shall we put ISIS in charge of our army...or the group responsible for 9/11 in charge of the airforce

that is just far beyond belief that i am struggling to convince myself it is possible!!

Schmokinn

Believe it you must as it is true and it's not the only force that have gone this route.I found it hard to comprehend especially in light of the Olympic fiasco and as you say their track record with prisoners.and I also believe that a prison that was run by them a few years ago had to be taken back under government control due to incompetence. But as they say money talks.

 

[Will Hewland]

Reading the piece on the CPSA website, this seems like a storm in a teacup. Nothing more than a sensible measure to be used as necessary if the police suspect something untoward.

 

[Les]

There's a bit more on it here:-

http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/news/exclusive-unannounced-police-visits-legal-gun-owners-begin-40860

 

[Rosso]

Common question asked at inspection is:-

Where do you keep spare safe keys?

Answer:- in a friends gun safe as I also have his.

Door locks not good enough.

Answer:- well your only as secure as a pane of glass.

I love it when they come round.

Put kettle on give him bickies.

No probs at all.

 

[Chris Hill]

No problem here.

As I understand it from my Dad and Grandfather, this used to be done in 'the good old days' when everyone knew the village bobby.

They also knew someone who lost his guns on one such visit because his wife had access to the keys.

 

[Wonko the Sane]

Sad to say the "burn your crazy neighbor with the guns" kinda laws are increasingly popular here.  None have been met with anything but heavy protest from the shooting community - quite unlike your easy acquiescence

Placing that kind of power in the absolute lowest level of law enforcement is nothing less than evil and so open to abuse that it is staggering.

JMO of course.   

A couple states here have reached point where all gun owners are nearly perceived as criminals in search of an opportunity to commit a crime.

I have to quit this thread now - the topic just pisses me off too much

 

[shortlegs]

This is BASC news letter on the news of the visits received today 

Police firearms security initiative

From Wednesday 15 October police forces in England and Wales will be taking part in an initiative to ensure firearms are being kept and stored securely. New Home Office guidance allows the police to make unannounced visits to check on the security arrangements of certificate holders under certain circumstances. The police do not have any new powers of entry.

The new Home Office guidance states that:

“Where it is judged necessary, based on specific intelligence in light of a particular threat, or risk of harm, the police may undertake an unannounced home visit to check the security of a certificate holder’s firearms and shotguns. It is not expected that the police will undertake an unannounced home visit at an unsocial hour unless there is a justified and specific requirement to do so on the grounds of crime prevention or public safety concerns and the police judge that this action is both justified and proportionate.

"It is recognised that there is no new power of entry for police or police staff when conducting home visits. To mitigate any misunderstanding on the part of the certificate holder the police must provide a clear and reasoned explanation to the certificate holder at the time of the visit.”

BASC is advising members to ensure their security arrangements are up to standard. The police are required to provide a clear and reasoned explanation to the certificate holder at the time of the visit. BASC members should be left in no doubt as to why the visit is being made. The police do not have an automatic statutory right of entry but BASC recommends a sensible and cooperative approach to this type of situation.

It is possible that the reason for visiting may not be specifically about the certificate holder but may relate to other factors such as local rural or urban crime. There is an expectation of elementary cooperation from certificate holders following a reasonable request to check the security of your firearms.

If BASC members feel that any visit has not been undertaken properly they should first draw this to the attention of the local force; clearly stating the reasons why they believe this to be the case. BASC, on behalf of its members, will challenge robustly any police force which does not follow the Home Office guidelines.

A crime-stoppers line will also be launched for anyone with concerns about firearms security or about sudden changes in behaviour of certificate holders. However, BASC does not believe this is necessary or appropriate. BASC will be monitoring this closely.

BASC chief executive Richard Ali said: “BASC supports the police in their efforts to help firearms certificate holders maintain the excellent record of safety and security in England and Wales. Where there is specific intelligence of threat, risk or harm then the police should act. This guidance provides that framework and ensures that the police provide a clear and reasoned explanation to the certificate holder at the time of the visit.”

[SIZE=12pt]For BASC’s guidance on firearms security, click here: http://basc.org.uk/firearms/firearm-shotgun-security-what-do-you-do/[/SIZE]

 

[Rosso]

I have never had an unannounced visit but did once have two fully kitted out firearm response blokes.

Well I warned you about walking about the town in those fishnet stockings Ian! You were just asking for trouble!!!!   :laugh:

Well I never new that. So if you wear stockings, nice boots and moisturise like most trap shooters do they risk visits from the rapid response police.

Sounds good to me. About time the trap shooters manned up a bit. Good on the rozzers.

 

[ips]

I am a modern man

 

[Deershooter]

I don't have a problem with this but are they going to check all known drug dealers as well just to make sure they don't have any drugs

Deershooter

 

[Wonko the Sane]

I don't have a problem with this but are they going to check all known drug dealers as well just to make sure they don't have any drugs

Deershooter

Don't be ridiculous.  Why chance a conflict and possible lawsuit when you can roust honest people with impunity?

 

[Simonix]

Maybe they could start hanging around pub car parks at night to randomly do "unannounced" breathalyser tests on people leaving the pub in their cars?

Just in case, you know......   ;-)