Where do YOU stick yer finger ?

[westley]

I heard of an incident of an accidental/negligent discharge, which had caused minor injury, but could have resulted in a loss of sight (or far worse ! ). It had occurred when a shooter (game shooter) had fired 1 shot and was bringing the gun down to reload. The gun discharged the remaining barrel, injuring someone, who, thankfully was a distance away. This got me to thinking, I have ALWAYS advocated and taught, to remove the finger from inside the trigger guard onto the wood, before ever attempting to open or close ANY gun, including auto's and pumps. I cringe when I see people with their finger inside the trigger guard, whilst performing this operation.  There are even 'Vids' on YouTube where people, who should know far better, clearly fingering the blooming trigger on an open gun whilst talking about the guns virtues. They then actually load the gun and fire it, but their finger has never left the trigger. We all know how safe these people are and they have always done this without issue, BUT in every incident of unintentional discharge that I have encountered,  the trigger was PULLED  ! The very act of opening a shotgun can cause the finger to tighten on the trigger. My maxim being the very last thing you do before calling PULL, is finger on trigger. 

Tin hat on and taking cover   !    

 

[Freddypip]

Personally I place my finger on the front of the guard and place it on the trigger just before saying pull. I don't coach formally but I insist on the same with anybody I do as it's easy to see its sufficiently away from the trigger to avoid an accidental discharge. I also insist that the finger moves to the front of the guard after the shot (or shots) are taken - its the first thing to do in my mind.

From a safety point of view, moving the finger below the guard and onto the stock would be better but I think that's where bad practice creeps in - changing your grip as you prepare to shoot doesn't help consistency and if there's a way to safely avoid doing so I would - placing the finger on the front of the guard does that for me. The same in reverse - you have to slide your fingers down to make room for the trigger finger and that's not easy (when you start out). I would prefer people are not messing about with their grip between shots (again particularly when you start out).

In your example there is a lot wrong. Its not just the trigger finger placement but where the gun was pointing with the second barrel still live and how others were in range or the line of fire albeit I know it's a game shoot . This is the problem - its not just one case of bad practice but a few all at once. Accidents often happen to those who are 'safe' but riding a fine line all over the place which on one bad day they cross.

Finally the real danger to me is loading and then closing the gun with the finger actually pulling the trigger. With a manual safety it will fire immediately. Its why I like to see the trigger finger straight and visible to me & others.

 

[aynesie]

Trigger discipline should be basic gun safety and sacred as is muzzle awareness. No excuse.

 

[westley]

I didn't advocate moving your finger below the guard,  but ABOVE it, on the wood. Your grip doesn't need to alter, just a simple movement of the finger. In case anyone is struggling to understand,  I have added some 'pics'. I have included an O/U, a S x S and a semi auto to avoid confusion.  Sorry, I don't possess a pump action  !

 

[Doctor Lecter]

generally  shotgun safety must be drilled in from day one  to all new shooters , and seasoned shooters could have a refresher  now and again .!!    when removing gun from slip  open gun asap      i like to think i am very safety conscious !      we can become a tad  complacent  with familiarity !!   

 

[Sian]

I was taught Wood is good and only the other day I reminded a shooter who was taking his mate around a competition of that. He had the cheek to tell a father in front of him that his young son’s “muzzle movement was disconcerting”. His father was in the stand with him and in charge, the gun heavy and a little too long in the stock but he certainly was not a danger.  On the other hand the guy’s novice friend loaded, put his finger on the trigger and then moved the gun around A LOT to get comfortable in the shoulder.  That was disconcerting.  Credit to the novice who listened and for the rest of the shoot kept his finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.

 

[ColinD]

Coming from a Target shooting background (FAC) it amazes me that you can get a shotgun certificate, buy a shotgun and then just turn up at a shooting ground with no training what so ever with a few mates (possibly doing same) and have a shoot.

 

[Sian]

Coming from a Target shooting background (FAC) it amazes me that you can get a shotgun certificate, buy a shotgun and then just turn up at a shooting ground with no training what so ever with a few mates (possibly doing same) and have a shoot.

Often a contentious subject in some circles but I agree with you.  

 

[Scotty]

Coming from a Target shooting background (FAC) it amazes me that you can get a shotgun certificate, buy a shotgun and then just turn up at a shooting ground with no training what so ever with a few mates (possibly doing same) and have a shoot.

I agree. My local ground has a "safety passport" which is a certificate after 4-6 hours of instruction. There's not an assessment as such, but the certificate is only awarded once the instructors are happy you have demonstrated safe habits. It's known to the local FEO too.

It's aimed at people who don't have their certificates yet. Whilst I'm sure it doesn't make a difference against something bad in your record, it does show a commitment to safety and that has to be a benefit.

 

[westley]

Some grounds will NOT let you shoot until you have had an hours safety lesson with an Instructor, at rather a high cost. Problem being, IF you are an experienced shooter and you attend one of these grounds for the first time, just how do they know you are experienced,  or are they expecting you to pay a rather high price to prove it  ?

My method was to ask them outright how experienced they were.  If they claimed to be experienced, I would watch them on the first stand. I only needed to see them fire a couple of shots to learn how much experience they actually had. Hit or miss the target was irrelevant,  I was watching THEM  !

 

[Freddypip]

Thanks for the photographs Westley - I understand what you mean. Its being able to see the finger that is key.

This a me comment - and I think your system is better safety wise - but by moving the finger up the ring finger moves up the grip (see your AYA picture) and it has to be reset to get a more correct upright grip. I don't like people changing their grip after they have put their finger on the trigger or trying to do the two together. I can't emphasis enough however - that's a me thing.

 

[westley]

Thanks for the photographs Westley - I understand what you mean. Its being able to see the finger that is key.

This a me comment - and I think your system is better safety wise - but by moving the finger up the ring finger moves up the grip (see your AYA picture) and it has to be reset to get a more correct upright grip. I don't like people changing their grip after they have put their finger on the trigger or trying to do the two together. I can't emphasis enough however - that's a me thing.

With regards to the pictures of my finger position,  these were taken on my phone using my LEFT hand, not easy if you are right handed. They are not an EXACT picture of my usual finger position, only approximate. 

 

[Paul120]

usual Position? 

 

[Ewor]

Same as westley-my finger always above 

 

[ips]

This is my finger position (from a library picture)... and I am strict that folk I am minding on game days adopt same or at least similar, I don't believe that it matters if your above below or on the trig guard as long as your not on the trigger at any time up until you are mounting the gun to take the shot 

 

[Will Hewland]

Anybody fancy a pint?

 

[westley]

Are you offering  ??  

 

[jasper]

Thatchers gold please. 

 

[Bavarian]

There are two rules in shooting sports: Safe direction and trigger safety. If following just one of these two rules, the worst case might be prevented.

I got it two times that someone shot in the ground nearby me, both wanted to open their guns and left the finger on the trigger.

Fired one shot, one was left.