abt v Ut v ot

[ips]

ips 

I can't really compare old ABT against the new rules as I never really shot the old. All I do know is I'm crap at all of the fast trap disciplines. The more I shoot them the worse I get 

DT

You got to stick at it DT, then it becomes like a drug...

 

[ips]

I think the DTL boys should stay exactly where they are :angry:

DT

DTL shooters are usually only allowed to shoot "propper" stuff on very rare occasions, I am not aware of the 23rd dec being one of these "special occasions" therefore he was well out of order and should be reported

 

[40UP]

http://www.canterburytrap.co.nz/pages/8/products.htm

For those of you trappists who've never seen a moving ball-trap programmed for all nine OT schemes look here.  :huh:

 

[ips]

ooh never heard of one of those, interesting concept.

 

[Dog Tyred]

Pretty impressive stuff..........but the pessimist in me says its gonna breakdown too often as too many moving parts, motors, etc

Fantastic device to have in the garden though for practice

Now all I need is a bigger garden

DT

 

[newbie]

shame the garden is too small... not sure the neighbours would fancy clays landing in their chicken run...

 

[miroukumk38]

OT definately the hardest because of the angles, ABT second and UT the easiest, that said i average more at ABT than UT purely for me the distance that that the bird can come out of the trench ie ABT 2 yards UT 5 yards i find them more difficult to pick up !

 

[SARZY]

DTL to ABT to OT, thats the understood progression. If ABT is the stepping stone then I think its the Angles that are critical to the transition. Widest angles possible given safety considerations and slower speeds of target would be a starting point. However ABT has developed a following in its own right with International competition among the Home countries and now requiring a dedicated following to achieve any kind of success. In my neck of the woods, at one time, several DTL shooters could double up with ABT and be competitive but that was back in the day and not now as common.

It's unlikely that there will be a change any time soon and ABT will continue to be a discipline which caters for shooters  who have no desire to go to OT but want to be tested at a level which demands dedication from the regular ABT shooter but unfortunately discourages people who want to make a transition.

So, lets forget the Transition discipline and find other ways to accomodate those individuals who want to try OT.

Perhaps a 65-70 metre 'OT' to help the people who want to have a go might be worth trying.

 

[newbie]

i cant understand the need to transition other than appeasing those who dont like hitting less than 90-95%. if you want to shoot OT, shoot it. Get used to it as it is shot and learn to get good. if you want to hit DTL scores either get to be world class at OT or stay shooting DTL. simples.

Yes its depressing hitting 53 at OT. but thats the point, its a challenge!

ABT... well its my favourite discipline because you have no idea whats coming, its as fast as OT with its own complications/challenges. there are cheat ways of shooting it but they are not consistent.

darwinism... get good in your chosen environment. anything else is always a compromise.

 

[ips]

Some fair points raised, ABT is indeed a discipline in its own right and not JUST a steppimg stone to OT-UT. It has been my favourite discipline for 20+ years. the problem is that they keep meddling with it and now (for me anyway) its seems to have become harder than OT. That may be because I mainly shoot OT I am not quite sure but there you go.

 

[newbie]

i must admit i preferred the old angles as the hard right/left low ones really hurt!

That said, the high one is a bugger too. shame they didnt leave the old grass cutter in there...

 

[Les53]

Les

Was going to send out a search party for you pal, were you been ?

Yes your right people are scared of the fast disciplines which is why ABT should be an easier transition from DTL than it currently is. Then people will be encouraged to move into OT then we might get a few more layouts built then we can all shoot a "propper" discipline all the time and not have to travel a 250m round trip to shoot a comp.

 Hi Ian, Well we moved house as you know, back over to the other side of the harbour. We didn't have broadband for about three weeks, then there was Christmas and New Year, the last of the rellies went last Saturday and left behind colds, flu,

bubonic plague etc. All the beer vanished, the food vanished, I'm not feeling too good as I haven't been to the pub for a week! But I shall be there by 17.15 hrs today!!!! A nice pie and a few pints will put things right again! :lol:

 

[Les53]

Yes, welcome back Les 

Cheers Fred!

 

[RobertBeard]

Glad to see you back in the land of the living - we've been worried about you!

 

[Les53]

Glad to see you back in the land of the living - we've been worried about you!

Thank you for your concern Robert, I've been worried about me too! Well I mean....a week without a visit to the pub is serious!!!

 

[ips]

Les

you been a busy chap then. Pint and pie will sort your ailments.

Ian

 

[SARZY]

i cant understand the need to transition other than appeasing those who dont like hitting less than 90-95%. if you want to shoot OT, shoot it. Get used to it as it is shot and learn to get good. if you want to hit DTL scores either get to be world class at OT or stay shooting DTL. simples.

Yes its depressing hitting 53 at OT. but thats the point, its a challenge!

ABT... well its my favourite discipline because you have no idea whats coming, its as fast as OT with its own complications/challenges. there are cheat ways of shooting it but they are not consistent.

darwinism... get good in your chosen environment. anything else is always a compromise.

Ok, glad you are happy. For most people OT is the most difficult discipline. Ignore the transition, continue to see OT as an exclusive club of competent shooting Elite. Or try to make it more than a discipline that some persevere at and others try and get beaten up and never try again.

Of course 53 is a demoralising score, my only point was to try and help people to transition by encouaging them to have better initial success.

Also simples. 

 

[newbie]

Ok, glad you are happy. For most people OT is the most difficult discipline. Ignore the transition, continue to see OT as an exclusive club of competent shooting Elite. Or try to make it more than a discipline that some persevere at and others try and get beaten up and never try again.
Of course 53 is a demoralising score, my only point was to try and help people to transition by encouaging them to have better initial success.
Also simples. 

I agree, and that is the point. There is already a natural transition and that people already have the choice. Ipersonally don't feel the need to make an existing discipline easier to ease that transition. Different personality types will be attracted by different things, challenges of a targets or harder competition formats but easier targets. I personally like the fact I hit 53 as it makes me want to try harder and be better but not everyone is wired up the same way.

 

[ips]

OT should, and allways will be a hard discipline that is the point of it. ABT on the other hand IMO has historically been a step up from DTL for shooters who want a "bit" more of a challenge but still want to achieve a reasonable score.

Either I am not as good as I was (probably) or with all the meddling over the years ABT has become harder, 15-20 yrs ago I used to be able to shoot 90 + week in week out now I am down to mid 80s. General scores in comps over the last 12 months would go some way to confirming that it is now harder and also strangely my OT scores are currently exactly the same as my ABT. One also has to recognise the fact that ABT is, or at least theoretically can be a very unfair discipline due to its random target throw therefore you could come off with a 20 but had 10 hard targets and 15 relatively easy ones whereas your mate could come off with a 23 having had 5 hard targets and 20 relatively easy ones.

OT of course is a true test of a shooters performance, on the day at least. I am happy if there is a 2 in front of the score after each line and the odd 23, 24 or even the rare (in my case) 25 is a real bonus. I am allways highly impressed with the ability of some OT shooters to consistently shoot scores in the 90s this I believe is allmost certainly down to ther ability to forget about the inevitable lost target and focus on each target individually, this is a much harder mind set than it sounds in theory.