Will Hewland
Well-known member
One sponsored shooter told me he isn’t allowed to shoot his favourite shell, as they want him to promote the dearer ones.
After market chokes
- Thread starter jonz
- Start date
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Not that this guy is sponsored, however, there is a guy that shoots at my club who only shoots with Clever RVS shells... because they are the best! On Saturday it was opening day at the club and god knows why but he had none of his RVS with him??? Any how long story short another really good shot gave him a couple of plastic bound packs of Jocker LA28 to shoot... my god the look on his face you would thought that someone had handed him a dog turd :lol: ... however you could almost see a tear in his eye as he smashes clay after clay with these crappy shells costing half what he pays for Clever RVS :lol: The story here is that good shots shoot in the right part of the sky and when you do that the target breaks no matter what cartridge you are using!
Woodcock
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2012
- Messages
- 63
I use after market flush chokes in preference to the chokes that were supplied with the gun because the perceived wisdom from my shooting buddies is that they are superior in every way. I listened to them and truly believed in all that I read in the shooting magazines about the ability of the after market chokes. It was all true. I was shooting Sportrap a few years ago with two after market IC chokes and was more than happy with the breaks being achieved. Out of curiosity I measured the constriction of the IC after market choke and it was bang on 10 thou. I then measured the gun manufacturers IC choke and found the constriction to be 7 thou. I have not used a pattern plate to test the chokes but based on performance ( target breaks) the after market choke, in my opinion, was throwing a tighter pattern because of the tighter constriction. Having invested in the after market chokes I am happy to use them but am under no illusion that their choke designation and performance are different to what the theory would suggest. It could well be that the manufacturers have researched and designed chokes for their barrels based on performance rather than a designated constriction, like an IC should always measure 10 thou.
What it probably means is that the manufactures of any choke probably operate to a tolerance of +\- . 002” and given that tolerance a “quarter choke “ Might be anywhere between . 008” to .012 “ rather than the nominal 10 thou, which sometimes you will get . When you measured your choke you also have to consider whether you were comparing the choke measurements against the nominal bore of your barrels or the real measured bore which again might vary say +\- .003” from nominal . If you take a scenario where the barrel is on top tolerance and the choke on bottom tolerance , you now have 5 thou more than you thought . I was only half joking when I said chokes might as well be marked Sloppy through to Tighter than a Tight Thing . The only real use to me is that it is a fairly easy to apply incremental system .
I recall Clay Shooting magazine trying (!) to run an objective test of aftermarket chokes quite a few years ago.
They got hold of at least a dozen different chokes of the alleged same constriction and fired them all with the same gun and cartridge combination. The results told me two things:
1. One man's quarter choke is not the same as another.
2. Nearly all 'modern' chokes outperform their designated constriction/pattern performance estimates.
I think I'm right in saying that choke is a scientific definition of barrel constriction; eg full = 40 thou in a 12 gauge. So if point 2 above is right; things get very complicated very quickly......
Just to complicate things further ; I shoot game with fibre wads and there seems to be a point at which you can have too much choke and then things fall apart - literally.
They got hold of at least a dozen different chokes of the alleged same constriction and fired them all with the same gun and cartridge combination. The results told me two things:
1. One man's quarter choke is not the same as another.
2. Nearly all 'modern' chokes outperform their designated constriction/pattern performance estimates.
I think I'm right in saying that choke is a scientific definition of barrel constriction; eg full = 40 thou in a 12 gauge. So if point 2 above is right; things get very complicated very quickly......
Just to complicate things further ; I shoot game with fibre wads and there seems to be a point at which you can have too much choke and then things fall apart - literally.
Wonko the Sane
Well-known member
Nothing less than patently absurd!!! You imply that some manufacturers might not be completely truthful in their advertising? That top shooters can be purchased like a common ........... ? My God, Man ! ! That would be against the LAW ! Any statement printed or broadcast has to be the truth! What would this world come to if it weren't so?
ChrisPackham
Well-known member
I’m sure that you are right, when I had my Beretta fitted, my local gunsmith who did the fitting thought that the patterns my HP Optima extended chokes threw were ‘tight’ by his reckoning which was based on 40 years experience.
In respect of your comment about fibre game cartridges, when I used to use a multichoke gun ¾ always performed better than full.
i have said before that the technology in shooting has parralels with golf, by making a designated choke tighter than construction the clay breaks more impressively in the same way as a golf company strengthening the lifts of the clubs to hit the ball further, the resultant ‘wow that was powerful’ always pleases the consumer, same comment for ‘extreme’ shot which is actually one size bigger.
Jezek
Active member
Running any kind of "objective test" of choke tubes with the hope of a positive financial outcome is out of the question. You would need a lot of data, access to Dr. Jones' pattern-reading program "Shotgun insight" which is, at least for now, unavailable, and a lot of time on your hands and money to go with it. Since the likelihood of finding anything interesting (assuming that finding they are pretty-much alike is not very interesting beyond bring able to prove it) is low, it's not a crowded research field.
I see Muller chokes mentioned so I assume they are known there. What's you guess about the accuracy of the claims made for them? Do they really behave differently from similarly-constricted competitors? Are the patterns really wider? Are they really "more even?"
Though most readers here are no doubt familiar with the ways patterns are evaluated, here's a refresher, and in the last example, a difference between US and UK ways of calculating "pattern evenness."
Pattern Percentage:
http://www.claytargettesting.com/Terms/pdfs/Pattern Percentage.pdf
Pattern spread:
http://www.claytargettesting.com/Terms/pdfs/SeventyFivePercentDiameter.pdf
Pattern evenness:
http://www.claytargettesting.com/Terms/pdfs/Central Thickening.pdf
I compared the performance of a Muller Ü2 choke with a similarly-contricted Trulock Skeet2 choke. Here's the result.
That's enough for now. I'll add more later, including tests of the legendary "Brain" choke which you can read about here:
https://brainchokes.com/en/about-us/
Read up on them so you can knowledgeably predict how much, if at all, their performance differs from Muller, Briley, and Beretta choke tubes.
Neil
Oops, let's look at tighter chokes, I almost forgot.
First, trying to do any of this without counting pellets is a waste of time.
Nothing so far...
I see Muller chokes mentioned so I assume they are known there. What's you guess about the accuracy of the claims made for them? Do they really behave differently from similarly-constricted competitors? Are the patterns really wider? Are they really "more even?"
Though most readers here are no doubt familiar with the ways patterns are evaluated, here's a refresher, and in the last example, a difference between US and UK ways of calculating "pattern evenness."
Pattern Percentage:
http://www.claytargettesting.com/Terms/pdfs/Pattern Percentage.pdf
Pattern spread:
http://www.claytargettesting.com/Terms/pdfs/SeventyFivePercentDiameter.pdf
Pattern evenness:
http://www.claytargettesting.com/Terms/pdfs/Central Thickening.pdf
I compared the performance of a Muller Ü2 choke with a similarly-contricted Trulock Skeet2 choke. Here's the result.
That's enough for now. I'll add more later, including tests of the legendary "Brain" choke which you can read about here:
https://brainchokes.com/en/about-us/
Read up on them so you can knowledgeably predict how much, if at all, their performance differs from Muller, Briley, and Beretta choke tubes.
Neil
Oops, let's look at tighter chokes, I almost forgot.
First, trying to do any of this without counting pellets is a waste of time.
Nothing so far...
Last edited by a moderator:
Wonko the Sane
Well-known member
Unfortunately Mr. Winston continues to fail at kissing aftermarket *** and denies himself a well deserved fortune. Always such a pisser when hard data honestly evaluated enters a discussion.
schmokinn
Well-known member
Been reading his work for a while,that's why i know i wasted a fortune on aftermarket chokes 
mortum
Active member
While I agree that there is no significant difference in performance between aftermarket chokes, given that the choke is not defective, I believe chokes made of a different material (read: weight) do affect the feel and swing dynamics of a gun. For example, I prefer Extreme Chokes https://www.extremechokes.com/ (also available from Mid Wales Shooting Centre) because, made from titanium, they slightly off-load the end of the barrels on my heavy K-80. I compared the weight of .020 MOD titanium choke (21g) vs. the same in stainless steel (48g) and the latter weights more than twice as much. Plus, mine just look cool in deep black! :smile:
schmokinn
Well-known member
I prefer.....should read i make and market.
Did you not think we would notice it is your product?
Different choke denominations have different specific weights within the exact same type and brand, meaning a Skeet insert is always going to weight less than a Full ! Despite being a massive fan of shotgun barrels below 1500g (in 32" format) I have also long stated my own inability to detect the "balance" differences between extended standard, extended lights (such as Unobtanium or Muller) and flush versions, anyone who can feel 20g variances at the end of their tubes has my utmost respect, I'd be tempted to earn some beer money by asking to witness this feat in a blind test. Somehow I think this phenomenon and its affect on ones scores is over exaggerated, otherwise people will be complaining of missed birds when they swap from 3/4 down to Cyl for a close bird cos it upset their swing.
There is no doubt some chokes are heavier/lighter than others but that in itself means very little unless it happens to have a negative impact on a given shooters scores solely because.
The primary function of chokes is to increase/decrease the density of the shot pattern and in that regard there is nothing to choose between one brand or the next.
Will Hewland
Well-known member
I really noticed the weight with my DT11. It was the one good thing about Mullers.
Will Hewland
Well-known member
As you know, it’s impossible to be scientific. I would say I missed a few with that early model tree trunk DT11, yes, especially with fiddly stuff. The Mullers did make it feel a touch easier after that.
mortum
Active member
I am not hiding or trying to obscure anything, schmokinn - I do not make these chokes but I do market them. I also shoot regularly with the owner of the company and know nearly everything about how they made and the kind of attention to detail that goes into it. That said, I can buy and shoot any choke available on the market, and I tried a few but again, I definitely prefer Extreme's, which one of the reasons I am promoting them.
I sent you a message.
