Another price increase for cartridges at end of January

[k80ben]

Whether a gun fits or not sad fact is some people are prone to repetitive strain injury and long term shooting is a major cause everyone should do all they can to minimise recoil damage after all your health comes first some people never have recoil problems but if you do act now

I would strongly disagree. Now with a bad mount and bad fit I would agree. But if the mount is correct and the gun fits there’s anything in the way to strain

 

[chippy]

It was the recoil on my wallet rather than my shoulder that made me change to 24g.

 

[TerryTibbs]

I will say as someone who couldnt stand shooting 28g cartridges due to the frankly obnoxious recoil (Pro Ones, Pro Fibre, Sovereigns, Power Gold, Power Blue, English Sporting) I sort of stuck with 24g and was pretty much contempt, but i did always have the worry of being handicapped. I was shooting Gamebore Rose Gold in 24g 71/2 and loved the smooth non existent recoil.

On a whim i ordered a slab of Gamebore Rose Gold 28g 8s and have been pleasantly surprised at the smooth, soft and progressive recoil. It's comfortable and I don't get chucked about or bruised. So worth a punt in my books and although more expensive I would rather pay a bit more for comfort which makes the shooting more enjoyable.

I just don't understand who pays for Hull Pro Ones or Sovereigns in 28g and is happy with that level of punch and discomfort.

That saying, I am 6ft2 and 10.5 stone so maybe once the metabolism has gone and i fill out the weight will act as a recoil absorber.

A side note, the Hull Comp X 21g is probably my favourite cartridge of all time due to its recoil and range such a brilliant cartridge for club shoots.

 

[Freddypip]

Recoil seems to be a personal thing.

I've been shooting FBlack (28) & FBlu (24 & 28) for the past 18 months or so and I was moving towards the FBlack until someone on here said they are the same but that the FBlack was slightly more kicky to help semi-autos reload; apparently they perform out the barrel the same. To me that extra kick somehow felt better so that must have been all in the head ?.

I totally get Ben's comment - it makes complete sense - but I have shot my best round with 24g FBlus so I'm not discounting them as the go to just yet.

Guy down the road just put a order in for 4,000 24g FBlu at £264 - collection next week - obviously enough for while but he was told that it was probably the last week before the price goes up. I stocked up last time and I have nagging feeling prices increases are to prompt a bit of panic buying.

 

[TerryTibbs]

Recoil seems to be a personal thing.

I've been shooting FBlack (28) & FBlu (24 & 28) for the past 18 months or so and I was moving towards the FBlack until someone on here said they are the same but that the FBlack was slightly more kicky to help semi-autos reload; apparently they perform out the barrel the same. To me that extra kick somehow felt better so that must have been all in the head ?.

I totally get Ben's comment - it makes complete sense - but I have shot my best round with 24g FBlus so I'm not discounting them as the go to just yet.

Guy down the road just put a order in for 4,000 24g FBlu at £264 - collection next week - obviously enough for while but he was told that it was probably the last week before the price goes up. I stocked up last time and I have nagging feeling prices increases are to prompt a bit of panic buying.

According to Just Cartridges they make pittance on the cartridges hence the mandatory paid delivery fee. It must be the manufacturers making the game share, which makes distributors life’s harder to turn a profit themselves.

 

[jasper]

So just cartridges (clue in name) are supplying us out of the goodness of their heart. I doubt it. Everyone in the industry trots out this line regarding cartridges . But they continue to sell them. (Another clue).
Jasper.

 

[Bavarian]

24 vs 28g probably makes a Difference at higher levels. But my missing targets could not be blamed on the 4g Difference, I' m afraid.

 

[chesterse]

According to Just Cartridges they make pittance on the cartridges hence the mandatory paid delivery fee. It must be the manufacturers making the game share, which makes distributors life’s harder to turn a profit themselves.

Profit on cartridges all seems to be a bit cloak and daggers but on your average cartridge from what I have seen I bet they are making about £50 a thousand. All relative to how many you turn over I suppose.

 

[Freddypip]

The problem with businesses and top line profit is that we are interested in the mark-up and they only tell us their interpretation of the top line profit. £45 out of the £50 might be costs/overheads which leaves a profit of £5 or 2% - not great but adequate if you have a high turnover.

Edit - I understand the separate delivery fee but it does leave room for a bit of extra profit if bulk deals are done with couriers who themselves can better plan the routes.

 

[Luke_(NL)]

Profit on cartridges all seems to be a bit cloak and daggers but on your average cartridge from what I have seen I bet they are making about £50 a thousand. All relative to how many you turn over I suppose.

And the overhead that you need to recover from what you make per quantity sold. On the 24 gr. vs. 28 gr. I agree with @Bavarian that the 4 grams difference in pellets will not make up for shot placement. Maybe slightly better density, maybe another chip at the outside of the pattern. I'd be interested in comparing a top-shot's scores on the same rounds using 24 vs. 28 grams, and I'd bet its marginal.

 

[Paul120]

Every 28g load has a 24g load built into it.

And the overhead that you need to recover from what you make per quantity sold. On the 24 gr. vs. 28 gr. I agree with @Bavarian that the 4 grams difference in pellets will not make up for shot placement. Maybe slightly better density, maybe another chip at the outside of the pattern. I'd be interested in comparing a top-shot's scores on the same rounds using 24 vs. 28 grams, and I'd bet its marginal.

The question was asked to some of top olympic trap shots. The concensus was that 24 compared to 28g probably cost them 1 or 2 targets per 100. Lower class shots a few more.
If you look at the rules for UK ISSF events where 24g is the max allowed for international events. Classes C and D are allowed to use 28g for averages and class prizes. Same goes for Italy where Class 2 and 3 can use 28g.

 

[Timfish]

I recall somebody (maybe Clayshooting magazine?) once running a sporting shoot at Wylie valley and supplying mandatory 21g (probably Comp X) shells to all the competitors.

My memory says the scores weren’t far below those shot with standard 28g shells.

Some of the comments from certain ‘top’ shots afterwards were very interesting - some couldn’t believe the performance of those cartridges.

 

[Luke_(NL)]

That's more than I would have imagined, but there you have it. I often hear that some prefer using 28th as they feel it has "farther reach", but that would imply the 28gram cartridge containing more powder, as I would think a 24gr payload propelled by X amount of powder would go faster and thus carry farther than a 28gr payload propelled by the same X amount of powder.

 

[FESkent]

Profit on cartridges all seems to be a bit cloak and daggers but on your average cartridge from what I have seen I bet they are making about £50 a thousand. All relative to how many you turn over I suppose.

£50 per thousand as a retailer, I wish.

They are consumable items hence profit between 5% and 10% depending on type and then from that you pay your overheads, The VAT man takes more.

However like all consumable goods you hope to sell a lot of them for repeat profit.

We sell Fiocchi, Express and B&P cartridges.

 

[TerryTibbs]

£50 per thousand as a retailer, I wish.

They are consumable items hence profit between 5% and 10% depending on type and then from that you pay your overheads, The VAT man takes more.

However like all consumable goods you hope to sell a lot of them for repeat profit.

We sell Fiocchi, Express and B&P cartridges.

How do you decide which manufacturers to sell? Out of interest.

 

[FESkent]

How do you decide which manufacturers to sell? Out of interest.

All three brands are owned by Fiocchi, so can be included on the same order/pallet as now all operate from the Express premises.

Fiocchi brand is the most popular and the one we do most of as a good quality and competitive on price, then a few Express and very infrequently get asked for B&P which are excellent but a premium cartridge.

Generally we do not decide as a retailer but get what the customer asks for, keeping the popular type in stock.
And obtain for the customer If not in stock, difficult to stock every type, which is the space in which the likes of Just Cartridges operates, massive choice, most likely not the cheapest but provide a service to your door.

Express have today announced a price increase from the 19th February.

 

[westley]

I will say as someone who couldnt stand shooting 28g cartridges due to the frankly obnoxious recoil (Pro Ones, Pro Fibre, Sovereigns, Power Gold, Power Blue, English Sporting) I sort of stuck with 24g and was pretty much contempt, but i did always have the worry of being handicapped. I was shooting Gamebore Rose Gold in 24g 71/2 and loved the smooth non existent recoil.

On a whim i ordered a slab of Gamebore Rose Gold 28g

 

[TerryTibbs]

All three brands are owned by Fiocchi, so can be included on the same order/pallet as now all operate from the Express premises.

Fiocchi brand is the most popular and the one we do most of as a good quality and competitive on price, then a few Express and very infrequently get asked for B&P which are excellent but a premium cartridge.

Generally we do not decide as a retailer but get what the customer asks for, keeping the popular type in stock.
And obtain for the customer If not in stock, difficult to stock every type, which is the space in which the likes of Just Cartridges operates, massive choice, most likely not the cheapest but provide a service to your door.

Express have today announced a price increase from the 19th February.

Good insight and i can now see why most places stock a wide range of Fiocchi/Express range. Rarely do you get Hull and Gamebore on offer. My local has a good range of Fiocchi and will order in B&P at request. Good to understand some of the nuance behind it.

 

[westley]

I will say as someone who couldnt stand shooting 28g cartridges due to the frankly obnoxious recoil (Pro Ones, Pro Fibre, Sovereigns, Power Gold, Power Blue, English Sporting) I sort of stuck with 24g and was pretty much contempt, but i did always have the worry of being handicapped. I was shooting Gamebore Rose Gold in 24g 71/2 and loved the smooth non existent recoil.

On a whim i ordered a slab of Gamebore Rose Gold 28g 8s and have been pleasantly surprised at the smooth, soft and progressive recoil. It's comfortable and I don't get chucked about or bruised. So worth a punt in my books and although more expensive I would rather pay a bit more for comfort which makes the shooting more enjoyable.

I just don't understand who pays for Hull Pro Ones or Sovereigns in 28g and is happy with that level of punch and discomfort.

That saying, I am 6ft2 and 10.5 stone so maybe once the metabolism has gone and i fill out the weight will act as a recoil absorber.

A side note, the Hull Comp X 21g is probably my favourite cartridge of all time due to its recoil and range such a brilliant cartridge for club shoots.

Did you not get put off, by all of those rugby players following you around ?

 

[jasper]

I recall somebody (maybe Clayshooting magazine?) once running a sporting shoot at Wylie valley and supplying mandatory 21g (probably Comp X) shells to all the competitors.

My memory says the scores weren’t far below those shot with standard 28g shells.

Some of the comments from certain ‘top’ shots afterwards were very interesting - some couldn’t believe the performance of those cartridges.

Yep . I went. It was won off 95 I think. By a very good shot . He re shot the course with his usual cartridge(28grm) and shot 97. With the advantage of having shot the targets already. The targets were not toned down in any way for this shoot. Very very good reg targets. Some at good range. Would I shoot 21grm now . No. But with a level playing field, as it was at that shoot. Then no probs. But the price difference needs to be way more than the moment.