Baggers...How, Why, When? Truth or Fiction?

[jim french]

Good luck with this Fuz.While your putting in the hard work to improve try birds only and shoot against your average ,dont give the baggers your £5

 

[Will Hewland]

One aspect of human nature that has always fascinated me is honour. So, on the subject of cheating/bagging etc., here's a little morality test.

I personally witnessed this. The guy ahead of me was someone unknown to me but I was alongside the ref and the scorecard showed he was an AA. Half way through the stand he missed the 1st bird then got a no-bird on the report target. On the repeat pair he broke both birds and the ref called "Pair Dead" and scored him the pair. The ref was young and obviously inexperienced so at the 1st opportunity I put on my best fatherly voice and explained the correct procedure.

My honour question therefore is: What would you do if the ref awarded you a bunce target through not knowing the rules?

Seen this a lot. First question; how the hell do ground owners let scorers loose without knowing these rules. I have seen first established awarded on a sim-pair re-shot also..

I usually explain to the scorer what they are doing wrong. However, sometimes you think that you are doing yourself down, due to the shooters who have already benefitted that day.

As most of have, I have seen various scorer craziness..

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[Bob_P]

Why have classes at all? I still like the idea of a golf style handicap system, that is updated after each shoot. Can't be too hard?

 

[Clynt]

No probs darky my problem isn't with sandbagging per se, it happens to a greater or lesser degree and has always done, but try definitely proving it. As has been discussed, the numbers may not tell the full story.

Its more to do with a classification system stuck in 1965. The technology is available to update on a monthly basis so why not use it? I am carrying some shockers from 9 or 10 months ago which in no way represent my current form and standard.

It's just Damn frustrating for any improving shooter to knock in a pb 10 or so above the cut off for class and still get beaten by 10!

you keep at it Fuz the sport needs people like you. did a little check on the B class winners ( last time we spoke face to face at a shoot ) through issue 43-42-41 ????? one could very easily arrive at a very odd reflection of ability !!!!

 

[Fuzrat]

Don't worry, I know I have a decent 80 in me, just have to string it all together and woe betide any Bugger that accuses me of sand bagging due to the wholly inefficient class sytem

 

[Clynt]

Just a thought what if grounds were requested by the CPSA ,that at reg events to provide 11 or 12 stds 3 of which were for AAA ability. these 3 stds may then be used to, if felt necessary to move a shooter up if he or she constantly shooting them well ..? these 3 stds could be high-lighted on the card so every shooter taking part understood and knew what to expect ??? might keep scores down but so what, averages might even begin to achieve what they are meant to.

Truthfully I think the problem is here, and here it will stay, where and when good pay-outs are on offer............

 

[David B.]

speaking of sandbaggers Fuz is doing extraordinarily well these days for a C class shooter????!!!!

 

[Fuzrat]

Shame on you Mr B, did you really think I would bite on that worm when you use a bent 6 inch nail for a hook? You need finer tackle than that for your fishing expeditions

 

[ExSCA]

Anyway David - he is too busy beefing up so that he can bully the refs a bit more.

 

[Rob C]

A topic that has always seen many differing points of view to this matter, use to believe that this was rife in the sport but over time I seriously dont think it is.

Some people as been mentioned shoot more consistantly than others some just throw up big scores out of the blue and these can be from any class for what ever reasons .

I think nearly every shooter that goes out to shoot,aims to shoots the best score they can get on the given day. After all for most people its not about winning its maintaining or improving their average.

Will definitley agree though with the comments about only being classified every six months is to long. Has got to be better if shorter .

But I assume there is reason why it is'nt...

 

[Emmsy]

Just a thought what if grounds were requested by the CPSA ,that at reg events to provide 11 or 12 stds 3 of which were for AAA ability. these 3 stds may then be used to, if felt necessary to move a shooter up if he or she constantly shooting them well ..? these 3 stds could be high-lighted on the card so every shooter taking part understood and knew what to expect ??? might keep scores down but so what, averages might even begin to achieve what they are meant to.

Truthfully I think the problem is here, and here it will stay, where and when good pay-outs are on offer............

pointless, you would just shoot these stands last if you knew what they were, go try your best on the other stuff and then if doing well try hard on those, if not doing well throw birds away on those stands.

 

[Fuzrat]

Anyway David - he is too busy beefing up so that he can bully the refs a bit more.

Lies :angry: Its so I can be shooting stud of the month on the Ladies-shooting.com homepage :.: :.:

 

[Clynt]

pointless, you would just shoot these stands last if you knew what they were, go try your best on the other stuff and then if doing well try hard on those, if not doing well throw birds away on those stands.

is that the voice of experience speaking mate don't worry Stu there aint no baggers in Star shot (*) = £

 

[EdSolomons]

Lies :angry: Its so I can be shooting stud of the month on the Ladies-shooting.com homepage <img

src='http://www.shootclayforum.com/public/style_

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class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':.:' /> <img

src='http://www.shootclayforum.com/public/style_

emoticons/default/laugh.png'

class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':.:' />

I would have entered but it would have only lead to many fan letters which I just don't have time to open....!

 

[David B.]

fuz the thought of you beefing up on pigs in blankets and then working out is mind boggling !!

 

[dave]

Dave, I don't thing sandbagging is as bad as some seem to thing it is. Fuz has a real bee in his bonet about it, maby because he's stuck in c class where probably most sandbagging occurs, maby he's seen more of it than me, maby its because he's at the stage where if he shoots to his ability he should have a chance of winning c class, b I don't know, I'm sure he will tell us. Too many people want someone to blame for them not performing well enough to win a comp, (any sport, that's just natural) in clay pigeon shooting the default response of some one winning a class by miles is "sandbagged", some will be, most won't!!!!

I shot a comp two weeks ago, was 3rd in c with 73, the ground where the comp was held opens late till 9.30 on Wednesday, so last night after work I went back to work on the first 4 stands where I dropped 14 birds!?!? Shot them again, luckily they hadent been changed, dropped 3, then shot driven/teal pair that I dropped 3 on and straighted it, so, IF I had shot like that in the comp, and IF I had held my nerve and shot all the other stands the way I did durring the comp is have won c class with 87.......how many people would have looked at my score and thought, SANDBAGGER!!!???

Hi, thanks for that, to be honest, I think I was a bit quick off the mark. A bit shocked really. I had not thought that going shooting could be anything other than fun. However, when you consider the value of some prizes, I suppose that is a bit naive. In any case, I expect it will be some time before I need to worry about what people think of my performance.

What I am concerned with though is that when I do start to contend, will I be disadvantaged because the rules allow far better shots to clean up in my class. I said before that I know nothing yet but it seems common sense to revisit the rules with a view to creating a level playing field. Let’s hope the CPSA can sort it out.

 

[Les Graham]

I don't understand the whole "class" thing at all, it does not matter to anyone other that yourself what class you're in. All you registered shooters spend a tidy sum of ££££££££££ to get yourself mentioned in the list of ratings, only a few that know you will be interested, or care.

I'd far rather spend my money on local club shoots and shoot more often, and go home pleased with MY results, I don't care what anyone else thinks of me, good or bad, it's just personal achievement for me and good fun shooting.

As for 'sand bagging' (cheating) if anyone can achieve personal satisfaction from winning anything by cheating (sand bagging is cheating) then they must have a low self esteem.

 

[dave]

I don't understand the whole "class" thing at all, it does not matter to anyone other that yourself what class you're in. All you registered shooters spend a tidy sum of ££££££££££ to get yourself mentioned in the list of ratings, only a few that know you will be interested, or care.

I'd far rather spend my money on local club shoots and shoot more often, and go home pleased with MY results, I don't care what anyone else thinks of me, good or bad, it's just personal achievement for me and good fun shooting.

As for 'sand bagging' (cheating) if anyone can achieve personal satisfaction from winning anything by cheating (sand bagging is cheating) then they must have a low self esteem.

Fully agree that sandbagging is cheating.

 

[Chard]

I don't understand the whole "class" thing at all, it does not matter to anyone other that yourself what class you're in. All you registered shooters spend a tidy sum of ££££££££££ to get yourself mentioned in the list of ratings, only a few that know you will be interested, or care.

I'd far rather spend my money on local club shoots and shoot more often, and go home pleased with MY results, I don't care what anyone else thinks of me, good or bad, it's just personal achievement for me and good fun shooting.

As for 'sand bagging' (cheating) if anyone can achieve personal satisfaction from winning anything by cheating (sand bagging is cheating) then they must have a low self esteem.

What makes you think registered shooters give a toss about what other people think? :huh:

Just because you're not competitive, there's no need to start slagging anybody that is.

The classification system is a far better indicator of personal progress than your plugging away at the same old club targets will ever be.

 

[Les Graham]

What makes you think registered shooters give a toss about what other people think? :huh:

Just because you're not competitive, there's no need to start slagging anybody that is.

The classification system is a far better indicator of personal progress than your plugging away at the same old club targets will ever be.

Personal progress is a personal thing, not scores on the doors. Scores on the doors is an egotistical achievement.