BIOR or Fibre?

[Geordieboy]

Morning all,

So I'm back to shooting a fixed choke gun, Mk38 trap for English Sporting. 

After patterning about 30 cartridges, I'm settled on shooting Eley Superb plastic 7.5's and ELEY Federation 6,5 for extraneous targets. Both shells give me about 80%patterns at 40yds.

On a recent shoot, I missed 9 targets within 10-20yds.

Can anybody recommend a shell that opens up quickly or even blows early on? I want a more open pattern for closer targets as my current ELEY shells are awesome, but tight.

 

[Will Hewland]

I’ve found that the Bior Hull or Fiocchi don’t really do anything more than some fibre shells, in terms of spreading. They all are about a 30% larger diameter pattern at 15 yards. EJC Hellfire fibres are good.

 

[chesterse]

I’ve found Eley Select 24 or 28 gm 9s are good for that job. 

 

[Doctor Lecter]

one top shot i know uses approximately 75 sovereign 9s  per 100 esp reg     through 3/4- full  fixed chokes , having said that he puts it in the right spot !!   

 

[Will Hewland]

one top shot i know uses approximately 75 sovereign 9s  per 100 esp reg     through 3/4- full  fixed chokes , having said that he puts it in the right spot !!   

Sovereign 9s seem a funny idea. A classy cartridge holds pattern tight, yet in a 9 it will spread. I’d just use a cheaper shell for spread. But if is a top shot, he may be being sponsored with them. 
 

I do have a mate in AAA who uses Bior 8.5 for half a sporting course.

 

[FESkent]

I would suggest using a pattern plate to test how the different cartridges pattern through your gun and chokes, just because a cartridges is “cheap” does not guarantee it will pattern any worst than an expensive cartridge.

 

[Will Hewland]

I would suggest using a pattern plate to test how the different cartridges pattern through your gun and chokes, just because a cartridges is “cheap” does not guarantee it will pattern any worst than an expensive cartridge.

Agreed. But the very expensive ones tend to pattern well (tightly). That’s why I tried lots of cheaper ones, until I found one that patterned more like an expensive one.

 

[Geordieboy]

I would suggest using a pattern plate to test how the different cartridges pattern through your gun and chokes, just because a cartridges is “cheap” does not guarantee it will pattern any worst than an expensive cartridge.

That I will. I just wanted an opinion from all you find people before I go out and spend hard earned on shells.

I've about 40 pattern plates and you'd be surprised at the difference. A very expensive brand, put 20% if the load on the paper. Not convincing at all! 

Mark my words, I'll pay for expensive if they work!

I've got some f3 Biors, Superb Fibre, Mary Arm Biors, and express super comp fibres to pattern.

 

[Charliedog]

Morning all,

So I'm back to shooting a fixed choke gun, Mk38 trap for English Sporting. 

After patterning about 30 cartridges, I'm settled on shooting Eley Superb plastic 7.5's and ELEY Federation 6,5 for extraneous targets. Both shells give me about 80%patterns at 40yds.

On a recent shoot, I missed 9 targets within 10-20yds.

Can anybody recommend a shell that opens up quickly or even blows early on? I want a more open pattern for closer targets as my current ELEY shells are awesome, but tight.

Been impressed with the superbs also, dont seem to be that popular on the circuit

 

[FreeShot]

Try a cartridge that has only temepred lead (without antimonium), might work - it did for me with Clever T2 and MK70 - 3/8 Teague:



Back then - when I was shooting Browning Ultra Trap with fixed chokes I got the most spread from Cheddite Mach3 Free Shots 2.2 mm - here is a paper at 20 m through 3/4 choke:



However - at the end of the day I am not sure it was worth it - I guess I didn't hit any more than I would with "normal" cartridge - now I am only using one cartridge for every target and don't bother anymore.

 

[Will Hewland]

Certainly years ago, I found a great spreading cartridge, but missed more with it because in my head I didn’t have to try as hard.. I checked with my AAA mate about his 8.5 Biors. He says he got confused and stopped using them.  The great irony with really close targets is that it all makes almost no difference as you need some distance to allow shot to spread out.  I do laugh when I see somebody remove the choke for a 5 yard rabbit. The pattern grows from 4” to 5”. 

 

[Geordieboy]

Certainly years ago, I found a great spreading cartridge, but missed more with it because in my head I didn’t have to try as hard.. I checked with my AAA mate about his 8.5 Biors. He says he got confused and stopped using them.  The great irony with really close targets is that it all makes almost no difference as you need some distance to allow shot to spread out.  I do laugh when I see somebody remove the choke for a 5 yard rabbit. The pattern grows from 4” to 5”. 

I do believe you are more than correct in your assumptions on pattern size. 

My trouble is, as an Engineer..... I need to know. I'm patterning on Friday, and have shells to try against my Superb 7.5. 

Im rather hoping that there's no difference. That way, I put my hand in my pocket and shoot. 

 

[Luke_(NL)]

But the very expensive ones tend to pattern well (tightly)

Many can’t resist paying more to hit less…

 

[Geordieboy]

Many can’t resist paying more to hit less…

A particular high end brand name, flagship cartridge in 3 of my guns performed very badly.

Typically, as a rule of thumb, high Antimony shot gives good patterns.... I have found that out.

Tempered and Diamond shot lead sounds good....... But it's soft.

I had 1 manufacturer, tell me that soft lead is better for game so it flattens on impact. . As lead, is actually more dense than bone, the bone will break before the lead deforms. This is just bullxxxx to sell supposedly top end shells, with low quality shot and improve profits.

You want hard shot in your shells to keep a dense pattern at range. 

 

[Charliedog]

A particular high end brand name, flagship cartridge in 3 of my guns performed very badly.

Which one out of interest?

 

[Will Hewland]

Which one out of interest?

Come on.. he won't want to wreck his sponsorship chances.

 

[Geordieboy]

Come on.. he won't want to wreck his sponsorship chances.

I've been A Class for so bloody long now I highly doubt that's going to happen!!!!

I know what works in my gun and what performs less than expected.

So if Gamebore came along I'd have to decline  

 

[Geordieboy]

So then, results of my pattern test.

My Superb 7.5 plastics at 20yds - 10" diameter pattern

Fiocchi f3 BIOR - 18" pattern

Superb 8 fibre - 19" pattern

Hull Pro Piston 9's - 20" pattern

I am now happy. Without a doubt, shooting 2 fixed chokes LF/LF, there is a definite advantage in having a shell that opens up. When you see the 10" pattern, you have to be Bob on on the close stuff!

 

[chesterse]

A particular high end brand name, flagship cartridge in 3 of my guns performed very badly.

Typically, as a rule of thumb, high Antimony shot gives good patterns.... I have found that out.

Tempered and Diamond shot lead sounds good....... But it's soft.

I had 1 manufacturer, tell me that soft lead is better for game so it flattens on impact. . As lead, is actually more dense than bone, the bone will break before the lead deforms. This is just bullxxxx to sell supposedly top end shells, with low quality shot and improve profits.

You want hard shot in your shells to keep a dense pattern at range. 

Thanks for a useful experiment but as all the shells are mid to top end shells it would be interesting to see how a basic shell with lower antimony compares and perhaps save some money. As mentioned Eley Select 9s does the job for me.