Brace yourself

[Jan Powell]

That's the normal for mid range now isn't it 

Not quite, or at least that’s not what I pay.

 

[philpot]

Bring back the reloading press..............................ooooer, I'll get me hat. 

Phil

 

[Deleted member 230]

No good for reg shoots though. 

Jasper

 

[jonz]

No good for reg shoots though. 

Jasper

Who would know? Have you ever had anyone ask to check your cartridges? 

 

[Deleted member 230]

No not ever. But I prefer to play by the rules.

Dont you??

Jasper

 

[PhilR]

Who would know? Have you ever had anyone ask to check your cartridges? 

Yes at the UT World Championships in Italy last year. Two cartridges removed from the gun whilst waiting to shoot. It's a common occurence at the European and World Championships that cartridges are taken from random shooters. 

In the UK the last time I recall it happening was at a now closed Scottish shooting ground during a GB OT team selection shoot back in the 90's, not long after the rule change from 28 to 24gm.

A certain individual was spotted using cartridges of a colour that didn't correspond to the range of the box he was removing them from. Upon examination of the cartridges it was seen the printing on them, giving shot size and weight etc, was missing.

A trip to the village post office and use of their scales confirmed they were 28gm and not 24gm.

The process was a bit Heath Robinson and the only reason the guy got caught out was the shooter refereeing his squad was a GB team member sponsored by the cartridge manufacturer of the ones he was using. He noticed the discrepancy between cartridge case colour and the box and decided to pursue it further.

There was a lot of bluster from the individual that the cartridge boxes had got wet and disintegrated so he'd used other boxes to put them in. He was surprised there was no printing on any of the cartridges and even more surprised that the lead within them weighed 28gm. 

He was offered the choice of having his scores achieved with the illegal cartridges discounted and being able to finish the shoot with 24gm cartridges purchased from the shooting ground or withdraw from the event. He chose the latter and as far as I can recall that was the last time he entered a BICTSF event. 

Names withheld to protect innocent and guilty individuals. 

 

[Jan Powell]

Yes at the UT World Championships in Italy last year. Two cartridges removed from the gun whilst waiting to shoot. It's a common occurence at the European and World Championships that cartridges are taken from random shooters. 

In the UK the last time I recall it happening was at a now closed Scottish shooting ground during a GB OT team selection shoot back in the 90's, not long after the rule change from 28 to 24gm.

A certain individual was spotted using cartridges of a colour that didn't correspond to the range of the box he was removing them from. Upon examination of the cartridges it was seen the printing on them, giving shot size and weight etc, was missing.

A trip to the village post office and use of their scales confirmed they were 28gm and not 24gm.

The process was a bit Heath Robinson and the only reason the guy got caught out was the shooter refereeing his squad was a GB team member sponsored by the cartridge manufacturer of the ones he was using. He noticed the discrepancy between cartridge case colour and the box and decided to pursue it further.

There was a lot of bluster from the individual that the cartridge boxes had got wet and disintegrated so he'd used other boxes to put them in. He was surprised there was no printing on any of the cartridges and even more surprised that the lead within them weighed 28gm. 

He was offered the choice of having his scores achieved with the illegal cartridges discounted and being able to finish the shoot with 24gm cartridges purchased from the shooting ground or withdraw from the event. He chose the latter and as far as I can recall that was the last time he entered a BICTSF event. 

Names withheld to protect innocent and guilty individuals. 

Same deal at a selection shoot I attended a couple of years ago. Random squads were chosen for a cartridge inspection immediately before shooting commenced with each competitor asked to remove both shells for examination. It apparently came after ground staff noticed a 32g case in the cartridge nets when clearing up after the first day of competition.

 

[Deleted member 230]

This will become a bone of contention at esp shoots soon. When the change over to 24grms happens. We already have folk using 32 grm 5's etc

Jasper. 

 

[Jan Powell]

This will become a bone of contention at esp shoots soon. When the change over to 24grms happens. We already have folk using 32 grm 5's etc

Jasper. 

Don’t worry Jasper, they’ll be no cartridge inspections at sporting events. The organisers have long since given up trying to control the cheating!

 

[jonz]

No not ever. But I prefer to play by the rules.

Dont you??

Jasper

I do and there is so much cheating in english sporting, and sandbagging that I stopped shooting CPSA competitions some years ago. I would guess that there will be a few people who will start using home loads at sporting shoots now the cartridge prices are getting so high? 

 

[Deleted member 230]

Well probably. But realistically how much is there to be saved from home loads. Especially when you factor in the time taken.

Do The seeds of doubt creep in when you realise that your shed built loads aren't as good as factory loads? 

No idea really on costs involved for the equipment, requirements to purchase powder, cost of components???

Lots to consider. 

Jasper. 

 

[Salopian]

Homeloads can be very economical to produce in today's inflationary priced clay loads.

Indeed some years ago at a National shoot at Shugborough (now called Oakedge) a competitor was disqualified from a class  winning position after it was revealed he had used homeloads.

As for those doubters who believe that homeloads are inferior to factory shells , how do you believe prototype factory shells are produced ?

Of note :- 32gram of shot can EASILY be loaded into a 28gram used case and crimped with a very professional looking finish 

 

[TRINITY]

Of note :- 32gram of shot can EASILY be loaded into a 28gram used case and crimped with a very professional looking finish 

I know a bloke who does that, gets all his cases from the clay bins and then loads 32gms and higher if he can. The finished product looks like the original cartridge but the give away is the noise when they are fired  

 

[philpot]

When I mentioned reloading, it was tongue in cheek however I have in all honesty thought of going back to reloads for any non comp shooting because at 71 shooting on a pension as well as having my wife shooting as well is getting very difficult on the pocket and I will be talking to 'Clay and Game' at the Northern Shooting Show to work out costs.  I suspect it is no cheaper on 12ga  unlike 16 / 28 and .410 gauges. I sold my 28ga last year as my cartridges were £8.70 per box.

 

[Salopian]

Trinity, When I qualified as a referee it was mentioned to look out for excess noise from cartridges which may indicate heavy loads , but with the progress of powder technology I think it is now very difficult to differentiate from a standard clay load of 24 or 28 gram to a 32 gram . Sadly it highlights how easy it is for cheats to prosper .

I would think it is now very economical to homeload compared with some of the eye watering prices of one thousand commercially available premium brand .

Personally I have in stock thousands of wads , primers and vast amounts of various powders so reloading would cost me nothing but time to reload thousands of very good quality shells.

On a brighter note I have recently noticed how very good Eley Olympic Blues are compared with many far more expensive shells !

 

[Deleted member 230]

Fiocchi up 10% from Monday. (6th feb)

Jasper. 

 

[TRINITY]

Fiocchi up 10% from Monday. (6th feb)

Jasper. 

Jasper, I don't doubt you but is there a link to some sort of official confirmation. The reason I ask is because I suspect there will be price increases by many sellers on their old stock to make a quick killing.

 

[Deleted member 230]

Mr Garland told me yesterday. And as fiocchi uk operates out of there I have no reason to doubt it. 

Jasper. 

 

[FESkent]

from just cartridges today

Mr Garland told me yesterday. And as fiocchi uk operates out of there I have no reason to doubt it. 

Jasper. 

they do, but they also own lyalvale express, so have two u.k. locations.

 

[Cosmicblue]

Rising material and energy costs plus most of the components are imported from the EU - so they attract Import Duty and VAT.