Browning 425 & steel shot

[JonathanR]

With the debate that is going on about lead shot, I checked my Browning 425 for proof marks for steel shot - there are none.

However, the other day I got out the case that came with the gun (I bought it secondhand and had put the case in the attic), and I found tucked in with the guarantee certificate, a card that states that Browning certifies that the B425 'may be used with steel shot ordinary cartridges that meet the CIP standard', qualified that I had to be using the removable Invector chokes that came with the gun.

I'm not about to start wildfowling any time soon, but am intrigued by this. Presumably Browning mean standard performance cartridges, but a high-performance one would be a no-no?

Is this safe, or will I ruin my barrels, putting steel shot down them, if there are no proof marks? If the card hadn't mentioned the model of gun by name, I might have thought the cases had been mixed up at the dealers, but it does state 'B425'.

 

[JDL]

Presumably Browning mean standard performance cartridges, but a high-performance one would be a no-no?

Indeed.

Most cartridge manufacturers include a paper in the boxes of their high velocity cartridges, or have a statement on them, you should only use them when your barrels have a fleur-de-lis stamped on them.

Here a lot of people are ignoring this (steel shot is mandatory here).

Never saw a gun damaged by this, but that doesn't mean nothing ever happened.

Winchester X2 steel is popular here, as it seems to be pretty safe to use in guns designed for use with nitro-cartridges.

Some gun & cartridge manufacturers recommend using 1/2 as max. choke for steel shot, but again it's being ignored by most here.

Some manufacturers only have this limit for certain shot sizes.

 

[Paul120]

My understanding is that.

As you said. Normal steel  loads can be used in any gun at any choke. Although you might not want to put it through your old English SxS.

HP steel is a No No unless it has the Steel Proof and Fleur thing ztamped on it. 

Choke size is no more than half for shot sozes bigger thsn No 4s. 

Ihave a Beretta A390 which says in the book can be used with the heaviest loads including Steel loads but is'nt marked. Possibly as it was made before the Steel Proof was introduced.  But I would still err on the side of caution. 

HP steel people say is savage. I woild buy a cheap  Auto or Pump such as a £ 300 Hatsan or winchester SXP to use it. 

 

[ChrisPackham]

My understating is that non hp steel can go through a normal barrel but at no more than 1/2 choke.

HP Steel is indeed ferocious and I wouldn't use it in a gun I cared greatly about, it is also in the case of the gamebore magnum steel, unbelievably loud.

 

[FreeShot]

Here is what is written on the bottom of the Clever T2 28g #7 Steel shot cartridge box (0,5mm choke = 1/2).

On one of the ranges I attend the use of steel is mandatory and I saw many different guns used with steel - mostly trap guns (Browning FN, Ultras, Perazzi's Berettas...) choked 3/4 and 1/1 along with sporters of various makes and exchangable chokes, many of pre steel era - all shooting those clay loads for years now without any problems.

I am shooting steel through factory flush chokes of 1/2 (0.012) and 3/4 (0.018) in my MK 70 (Invector +, steel proofed tho)  - was advised (without explanation) by Teague not to shoot steel regardless of shot size trough their extended ones tighter than 1/2 (0.020) tho...

 

[Sobrepuesta]

For what it's worth I've shot about 6500 steel cartridges at ESP through my 686 Sporting with zero ill effects.  All have been target loads mostly SAGA Eurotrap Steel 28 gr #6 and some Winchester Xpert Game/Target Steel 1 oz #7.  They both break anything inside 55 yards with authority if you do your part.

I've shot them through the same chokes I use for lead: Beretta OEM flush Optima mod (1/2) and improved mod (3/4).  Beretta chokes (at least in the US) are marked SP (steel proof) up to improved modified (.025" constriction).  My gun doesn't have the fleur de lis proof.

When I hunted waterfowl, I used a Remington 870 Express and shot loads of 3" steel cartridges typically 32 grms of #2 or #4 at speeds between 1350 and 1550 fps (mostly Kent, Remington, and Estate).  Not sure if those were "HP steel" as such is a CIP term and I believe does not exist in SAAMI's ammunition specifications.  In any event, they'd let you know when you lit one off.  Gun has normal US SAAMI proof and Remington's chokes are good for steel shot up to full constriction.

 

[JonathanR]

Thank you everyone for the replies - if I do use steel, I'll check the carts are not HP.

 

[FreeShot]

Since your gun is covered with attached certificate and invector chokes are covered by factory - from Citory manuals:

http://www.browning.com/content/dam/browning/support/owners-manuals/08-406citori.pdf

you are good to go.

Oh and here is what is written on the Hull Pro Steel:

 

[EdSolomons]

Standees steel you will be fine. Some of my guys have put literally 100s of thousands of Hull steel through Krieghoff parcours fixed at 3/4 and full no problem at all. 

I shoot them through my fixed 3/4 barrels again no worries.

 

[Sobrepuesta]

Never reload steel shot cartridges?  Why not?

We do so in the USA all the time.  There is plenty of tested, safe data available.