Unless of course they were shooting something like the Premier League where we had the change over of classes occur after the competition had started so anyone who moved up a class at the cut off still shoots the rest of the Premier League in their lower class.
Cheats and cheating
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Iggy
Well-known member
Maybe I'm too simplistic, but I'd have a quiet word with my friend and if they chose to carry on I'd be looking for a new shooting buddy.
Don't see the point in cheating at anything, you win on merit. If you can't do that, work harder until you can.
Don't see the point in cheating at anything, you win on merit. If you can't do that, work harder until you can.
One of the issues is, having the CPSA,SCTA, WCTA, UCTA, etc if you were (hypothetically) AA in Ulster and come over to Ye Olde Englande where they regularly lose paperwork and records you can then enter in C class take the prize money and catch the ferry back smartish.
All I can say to that is " You thieving low life, desperate piece of excrement " you and your mates who know you cheated should be totally ashamed of yourselves !
Give the prize money back , grow a pair and shoot in your correct class or don't bother , you may be kidding yourself but not us.
All I can say to that is " You thieving low life, desperate piece of excrement " you and your mates who know you cheated should be totally ashamed of yourselves !
Give the prize money back , grow a pair and shoot in your correct class or don't bother , you may be kidding yourself but not us.
One of the issues is, having the CPSA,SCTA, WCTA, UCTA, etc if you were (hypothetically) AA in Ulster and come over to Ye Olde Englande where they regularly lose paperwork and records you can then enter in C class take the prize money and catch the ferry back smartish.
All I can say to that is " You thieving low life, desperate piece of excrement " you and your mates who know you cheated should be totally ashamed of yourselves !
Give the prize money back , grow a pair and shoot in your correct class or don't bother , you may be kidding yourself but not us.
So we need one database of classifications that covers the whole of the UK.
All I can say to that is " You thieving low life, desperate piece of excrement " you and your mates who know you cheated should be totally ashamed of yourselves !
Give the prize money back , grow a pair and shoot in your correct class or don't bother , you may be kidding yourself but not us.
So we need one database of classifications that covers the whole of the UK.
Nimbusgb
Well-known member
Good luck with that!
Let alone NI and Europe ( Belgians and French pop over to South East Shoots occasionally! )
philmoss
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From what i understand, this was a GB FITASC shoot hosted by the BICTSF, held in Wales with competitors from England, Scotland & Wales......... so CPSA, WCTSA & SCTA members in attendance, some indifferance in class abilities i beleive !!.............. Just Saying :angel: :angel:
Jeremy Baker
Well-known member
Hypothetically if the shooter told the organisation of his class elsewhere before the start of the competition then the shooter has done his best.
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Phil,
Surely if you know that they have put you in the wrong class you would query it wouldn't you???????
This cheating thing is really doing my head in, if someone cheats, OUT them.
Let us not continue this innuendo and end up giving Matt Rutherford a Coronary.
Matt, your a FITASC expert surely YOU know who it is?
I know two FITASC experts, one an old man the other a child from Eccleshall area ( North Shropshire ) who will not shoot for the best County , but do train there , and they are both classless. :lol: :lol:
Surely if you know that they have put you in the wrong class you would query it wouldn't you???????
This cheating thing is really doing my head in, if someone cheats, OUT them.
Let us not continue this innuendo and end up giving Matt Rutherford a Coronary.
Matt, your a FITASC expert surely YOU know who it is?
I know two FITASC experts, one an old man the other a child from Eccleshall area ( North Shropshire ) who will not shoot for the best County , but do train there , and they are both classless. :lol: :lol:
Peter - no-one is an expert compared to you, but please don't worry about my heart - its well cared for.
I have no idea about any of this, because i only really focus on myself shooting, and enjoying myself with my friends.
I don't give a toss about the next score, or anyones class. I'm not going to score one clay more whining about someone else.
My advice would be for more people to focus on themselves.
I have no idea about any of this, because i only really focus on myself shooting, and enjoying myself with my friends.
I don't give a toss about the next score, or anyones class. I'm not going to score one clay more whining about someone else.
My advice would be for more people to focus on themselves.
In France your licence to shoot any form of clay target shooting is stated quite clearly on your certificate which has to be shown to enter any competition and it changes only annually so something like this cannot happen here. Note once you are in veteran cat then you have no other sub cat for scores achieved you are a vet and whether you are crap or great you basically are shooting scratch as more often than not a vet wins scratch. My guess is that any foreign shooter could only enter a scratch competition?
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Nimbusgb
Well-known member
Classifications that change once a year are unrealistic, especially with a new shooter.
HaHa I don't think you have the concept. If you are a brand knew to shooting shooter in France and are 55 or over you shoot in the vet category... which is effectively scratch as there is no sub category... tough luck... if you don't want to compete don't ! I don't have a problem with that to be honest as I think competitions should be scratch anyway... I mean why enter a competition to see if you compare favourably with another crap shooter in your category? Fair enough have categories to be able to say in category blah you were placed position X but don't hand prizes out for it ... real competition is scratch... the winning something because you shot poorly but less poorly than another shooter in a category is just sad . If you want to compete then do so but don't compete on the level that you will only do so if you are cosseted into a place where you can win something by shooting in a category.
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Ian in France up to the age of 54 you can win prizes based on your previous scores and the fact you are less than 55... as soon as you hit 55 your comfort blanket is removed and you shoot and win prizes based on how good a shot you are. I see guys down here who have been shooting for decades winning cash for being not that good... as soon as they hit 55 reality kicks in... some don't even compete once the vet card is issued. Don't get me wrong there a lot of very talented shooters winning category as well. However winning a first prize, which in monetary terms exactly the same as for top vet, for shooting 80% is wrong as it is based on (A) your age and (B) the fact you don't shoot well it has nothing to do with how long you may have been shooting... rewarding mediocrity in my view.
Anyway sorry all this has nothing to do with the OP was just a reply to Nimbusgb about category reviews.
Anyway sorry all this has nothing to do with the OP was just a reply to Nimbusgb about category reviews.
Well I don't consider myself crap if I score 80% at the shoots I attend and I don't consider myself crap in my class or my category so I must be the very sad type. I like that my percentage of money paid over at competition supports my class' winning pot and I have always paid the comp price even when there wasn't a hope in hell of me winning which has been for most of my shooting. Over here in ESP at least, majority of shooters and I'm talking all classes including AAA are genuinely pleased for a "crap" C class shooter when they win their class - it's called progressing through the ranks, you are on a journey and they cheer you on. I'm no effing coward and if I have to shoot scratch say in a shoot off - category or other I will do my best and I won't whine about it but the way our sport is run gives the sport the maximum potential to attract a lot of shooters.
Sian I was talking 80% for UT when 95- 98 is the winning score. I don't agree re that winning a class actually means progressing if all that means is shooting a score good enough to win that score banding. What I will say and I am talking about shooting over here in France is that as soon as you reach the age of 55 you lose all the privilege of winning anything because you have a category to fall back on because to win a competition in the vet category is more or less scratch. My opinion is based on my experience of shooting here which has nothing to do with what happens in the UK but I brought it up because of a previous post ... but I still think scratch is the real competition.
ips
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sian
you know that i respect your opinions and your views a great deal but.... Personally I have never quite got my head around class system, it has never interested or concerned me either when I started and was crap or after ten years when I was reasonably good or now when I am middle of the road at trap stuff and absolutely crap at esp. Regardless of my ability or lack of I would still prefer everyone to shoot scratch at every level of comp. Just my view which is not necessarily correct or popular but there you go. ?
you know that i respect your opinions and your views a great deal but.... Personally I have never quite got my head around class system, it has never interested or concerned me either when I started and was crap or after ten years when I was reasonably good or now when I am middle of the road at trap stuff and absolutely crap at esp. Regardless of my ability or lack of I would still prefer everyone to shoot scratch at every level of comp. Just my view which is not necessarily correct or popular but there you go. ?
To win in your class at ESP you most times have to shoot above your class' average and beyond. You can look at it a different way as well a AA shooter may win the shoot by 1 clay because they are already hitting most of them. I too within my class may win by 1 clay but instead of that being between the averages low and high given for C class I may have to add 10 or more clays on my score in order to do that. Same in B and same in A. As for the disciplines - that is the reason scratch doesn't work in all disciplines particularly if you want to keep a healthy number of shooters attending anything other than a small straw baler - no disrespect to store balers - a number have kicked my arse.
I understand but I do think it is a discipline thing and I'm being practical and keeping it real in my own main discipline - I want it to flourish and my journey has been made more fun by being cheered on by my betters even when their score has been outstanding and mine is a score they never get anymore - they still find it in their hearts to encourage me.
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