Choking on a decision....

[Iggy]

Ok ladies and gents, I need some help with clear thinking....

Couple of years ago I bought a Guerini Invictus Impact, hi-rib with adjustable comb. Got it all set up and have been really happy with it..until I picked up one of the new Invictus Supersports a few months ago...32" tubes and fixed choke 3/4 and full. The gun fits well, balances and swings beautifully and with the tapered rib (10-6mm) points like a laser.....it felt 'connected' and needless to say it came home with me.

I only shot ESP and in the 6-7 years I've been shooting I've rarely used anything tighter than 1/4 and 1/2 so moving to 3/4 and full was a bit of a leap of faith, but having shot it a few times now any targets from mid to longer range are crushed and it's really given me a confidence boost.

However on the last couple of outings I've been getting a mental block forming on anything close in....to the point where I'm talking myself into missing before I've even called for the target.....so I'm picking up longer targets and losing th close ones.

I don't want to swap the gun, so as I see it I have 3 options....and need a bit of impartial input to help me decide. 

1. Have it opened up by Teague say 1/2 and 3/4 for about £50 a barrel. Any downsides to this....what happens about the chrome bore lining....do I need to worry?

2. Have it multichoked by Teague....about £500 all in?

3. Leave well alone, and learn to shoot it?

Any other options I haven't thought about?

Any thoughts, views on the best way forward?

Has Teague work ever 'gone wrong' and POI moved....I've never heard anything but good things about them but if anything is going to go pear shaped it will for me ? 

Thanks all ?

 

[MJJ]

Get someone to poke you with a sharp stick every time you miss a close one. This should improve your shooting in a short space of time. Leave the bloody gun alone and shoot it.

 

[ips]

different cartridges for close stuff, 9s maybe

 

[Hamster]

Ok ladies and gents, I need some help with clear thinking....

Couple of years ago I bought a Guerini Invictus Impact, hi-rib with adjustable comb. Got it all set up and have been really happy with it..until I picked up one of the new Invictus Supersports a few months ago...32" tubes and fixed choke 3/4 and full. The gun fits well, balances and swings beautifully and with the tapered rib (10-6mm) points like a laser.....it felt 'connected' and needless to say it came home with me.

I only shot ESP and in the 6-7 years I've been shooting I've rarely used anything tighter than 1/4 and 1/2 so moving to 3/4 and full was a bit of a leap of faith, but having shot it a few times now any targets from mid to longer range are crushed and it's really given me a confidence boost.

However on the last couple of outings I've been getting a mental block forming on anything close in....to the point where I'm talking myself into missing before I've even called for the target.....so I'm picking up longer targets and losing th close ones.

I don't want to swap the gun, so as I see it I have 3 options....and need a bit of impartial input to help me decide. 

1. Have it opened up by Teague say 1/2 and 3/4 for about £50 a barrel. Any downsides to this....what happens about the chrome bore lining....do I need to worry?

2. Have it multichoked by Teague....about £500 all in?

3. Leave well alone, and learn to shoot it?

Any other options I haven't thought about?

Any thoughts, views on the best way forward?

Has Teague work ever 'gone wrong' and POI moved....I've never heard anything but good things about them but if anything is going to go pear shaped it will for me ? 

Thanks all ?

I am seriously considering the Invictus M Spec myself and if there's anything left over once we eventually get our new kitchen/lounge sorted I shall be ordering it with 1/2 & 3/4, having said that I do not believe that you (or I for that matter) will miss any fewer targets close in   because of that. 

Despite being a massive believer in chokes and their benefits, the reality is that to get a quantifiable mechanical advantage on a 15 yard target you have to drop all the way down to CYL or Sk at the very most AND learn to understand and apply the correct (modified) technique to targets that are roundyourearoles. 

I don't recommend getting the gun multi choked because that negates what the spec of the gun was/is to begin with. It would be like buying a Jack Russell and then trying to tame its spirit and teach it to sit at a peg, or getting a labrador to train as a lamp dog. 

I am afraid the answer is as always somewhere in the middle i.e, you need a combination of measures, in your case I would try a few of the cartridges available that are supposed to open up a tad compared to regular ones and test them to make sure they make a measurable difference, then you need to knuckle down and understand what it is that makes us miss close birds. Just this Sunday I went round with a couple of mates (one B the other a rather handy A) giving both advice in keeping with their level, one who had had the measure of most stands (not to mention me :lol: ) eventually came unstuck on a pair scoring only 3, I told him not to worry because that is what makes you into AA eventually so long as you can dissect and understand what went wrong not just technically but in terms of application. The same one missed 3 closeish quartering away rabbits, afterwards I explained to him that experience had taught me that this target was going to be hellishly easy to miss in front hence I did not swing into it from behind but held the gun out much further which creates less movement. 

What you really need is an hour or three with a good coach who will explain why, what and  how to alter hold points etc, small differences can make big changes in results. 

Choke is an aid, not a replacement for knowledge ( I hope that doesn't sound rude by the way). 

 

[Iggy]

Thanks Hamster....all makes a lot of sense.

You'd be more than welcome to try mine if our paths either crossed or we could arrange a meet up. I dread to think how much money I've spent getting to this point, but it really does feel the most 'sorted' gun I've ever picked up....I think you'd like it.

I think I knew/know deep down what the answer is, and that I really should knuckle down and stick some lead through it. I'd not actually considered looking for a different shell that maybe opens up a bit more for the closer stuff...maybe a fibre 9's or one of these bior wad jobs....but as you say I need to try a few and see a material benefit before settling on one.

Youre right, multi choking it would just be the opposite of what it was intended to be and I really don't want to risk altearing the balance which feels perfect to me.

As you say, for the cost of multi choking I could have a few very good lessons to help my understanding of the techniques currently needed (and definitely missing) in order to adapt.  

Thanks again and no, it didn't sound rude ?

 

[ChrisPackham]

different cartridges for close stuff, 9s maybe

This, Hull have designed an open patterning cartridge..

 

[Hamster]

Thanks Hamster....all makes a lot of sense.

You'd be more than welcome to try mine if our paths either crossed or we could arrange a meet up. I dread to think how much money I've spent getting to this point, but it really does feel the most 'sorted' gun I've ever picked up....I think you'd like it.

I think I knew/know deep down what the answer is, and that I really should knuckle down and stick some lead through it. I'd not actually considered looking for a different shell that maybe opens up a bit more for the closer stuff...maybe a fibre 9's or one of these bior wad jobs....but as you say I need to try a few and see a material benefit before settling on one.

Youre right, multi choking it would just be the opposite of what it was intended to be and I really don't want to risk altearing the balance which feels perfect to me.

As you say, for the cost of multi choking I could have a few very good lessons to help my understanding of the techniques currently needed (and definitely missing) in order to adapt.  

Thanks again and no, it didn't sound rude ?

The M spec is pretty much what I'd want a gun to be save for the fact that they're apparently only around 8.2 lbs, not difficult to rectify if that does turn out to be the case as I'm sure weights can be added to the stock to beef things up to just under 9 lbs. I hope to get one with an adj comb anyway and shall be adding a "phase 2" recoil reducer which is bound to add some weight anyway but as mentioned all depends on finances, I always seem to find other things or people to spend money on rather than a clay gun.  :aww:

Incidentally do you know what the actual weight of your barrels are, it should be stamped on the side in KG's ? 

 

[Iggy]

I've just put mine on the electronic scales and as you say, it's 8.24lbs.

It may just be my old eyes but I've had a good look of the barrels and I can't for the life of me find any weight measurements on there....sorry. I have taken a few snaps of the barrels/breach area below, just in case the weights are in some form of 'code'?

With the mods you have in mind I'm pretty sure you'd have no problem getting it up to around the 9lb mark. 

 

[Jonny English]

I have found gamebore evo fibre 8's open up very nicely and the 8's still carry good energy for breaking edge on clays and rabbits etc.

 

[Doctor Lecter]

I was told the other day while missing a close incoming clay that my shot takes about 1/40th sec  to reach its target and that no lead was necessary  just shoot its nose off .!     it worked too .  the advice was from the ground owner  good shot too . 

 

[Oldblaster]

Personally l would leave the gun as it was made and use fibre 9's, you would hit the target with 7s if you are on em, but using 9's just gives you that little bit more confidence. l shot some of my best scores with 3/4 & full, but have drifted back to 1/4 & 3/4 because of the thought of missing one or two fast incommers.

 

[P1Fanatic]

It could be a multitide of issues but I doubt too tight a choke is one of them. Is it all close targets or a certain type? If they are that close then you are most likely overleading.

 

[Iggy]

Nothing specific, just tend to panic on anything close in for fear of overleading.....which makes me think I'm either not cutting back enough and missing behind or not making any adjustments and missing on front 

Strangely it's not had any affect on rabbits.....I just shoot these as normal but get balls of dust rather than regular 'breaks'.

I think the main issue is that conscious thought process creeps in at the last minute and it all just goes t*ts up!

 

[Salopian]

Iggy / Hammy ,

 Barrels weigh 1471grams

 

[Jonny English]

Iggy / Hammy ,

 Barrels weigh 1471grams

Blimey that's 200 grams lighter than my 725 barrels!

 

[Charliej]

Hi, Iggy I am in a similar position having recently purchased a 3800 miruko with x full in both barrels  (50,000) i shoot esp and also have struggled with so called easy close clays I'll often mess about with cartridges say 8.5 or 9 shot but not sure wether iam feeling its more of a placebo effect than actually helping me hit more as you say mid to long range no t an issue. Probably practice and using a pattern plate with different shells to get confidence in a good combination of gun/cartridges hopefully may help. However iam also considering having the miruko opened out 5/8 and 3/4 but is a big step to make probably more practice say 6 months or so and then decide cheers 

 

[MJJ]

Hi, Iggy I am in a similar position having recently purchased a 3800 miruko with x full in both barrels  (50,000) i shoot esp and also have struggled with so called easy close clays I'll often mess about with cartridges say 8.5 or 9 shot but not sure wether iam feeling its more of a placebo effect than actually helping me hit more as you say mid to long range no t an issue. Probably practice and using a pattern plate with different shells to get confidence in a good combination of gun/cartridges hopefully may help. However iam also considering having the miruko opened out 5/8 and 3/4 but is a big step to make probably more practice say 6 months or so and then decide cheers 

Blaming the chokes for short range misses will not cure the problem!!!!!!

How far is your - mid to long range?

 

[Charliej]

Totally agree iam sure it's all in the head more  good practice needed mid to long range roughly 20 to 50 yards, problem clays for me are  the 10 -20 although rabbits often not a problem this close in ?

 

[schmokinn]

Had my Perazzi taken out to 1/2 and 1/2 nothing more needed on sporting no dithering which barrel,any fibre on real close targets F3 piston for everything else,still broke the black on the clay snooker at Mid Wales an extreme target i would say....once