Disqualification
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Doug Pinnegar
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From the NSCA Facebook page:
The disciplinary case from the World English Sporting Championship is under appeal. It is NSCA policy not to discuss the details of any disciplinary matter, but we can explain the process being followed, which is dictated by the NSCA Rule Book, Section IV “Rules of Conduct,” starting on page 11. This prescribes how rule violations are to be addressed and how disciplinary actions are undertaken. http://nsca.nssa-nsca.org/rule-book/
Following notification of an appeal, according to rule IV-E-1, “… the NSSA Officers shall hold a hearing on the matter, which will take place at the next regularly scheduled quarterly meeting of the NSSA Officers.” This meeting will take place on January 16, so the case will remain on appeal until that time. The decisions of the NSCA Executive Council will remain in effect during the appeal process. Following the meeting, NSCA will make a final statement on this case. Thank you for your patience and understanding as we follow our established process.
The disciplinary case from the World English Sporting Championship is under appeal. It is NSCA policy not to discuss the details of any disciplinary matter, but we can explain the process being followed, which is dictated by the NSCA Rule Book, Section IV “Rules of Conduct,” starting on page 11. This prescribes how rule violations are to be addressed and how disciplinary actions are undertaken. http://nsca.nssa-nsca.org/rule-book/
Following notification of an appeal, according to rule IV-E-1, “… the NSSA Officers shall hold a hearing on the matter, which will take place at the next regularly scheduled quarterly meeting of the NSSA Officers.” This meeting will take place on January 16, so the case will remain on appeal until that time. The decisions of the NSCA Executive Council will remain in effect during the appeal process. Following the meeting, NSCA will make a final statement on this case. Thank you for your patience and understanding as we follow our established process.
Doug Pinnegar
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As far as I am aware nothing has been confirmed or released from the governing body?
I'd suggest it doesn't warrant discussion as its speculation.
I'd suggest it doesn't warrant discussion as its speculation.
schmokinn
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Cosmicblue
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It is possible to work out - I did. You can compare the list of competitors who registered for the event with the published scores (both were listed on the web) - with one batch of competitors for a certain country being of more interest than others.
If a competitor handed in score cards with easily identified alterations to scores on numerous stands and totals for each stand obviously altered , if fellow competitors complained about the blatant cheating that they had observed , if the organising club then disqualified the offending competitor , should this incident then go to the National Association for a decision to be made in six months time ?
DavidJ
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To be fair the NSCA they are only following their own procedures.
Northbrook took time to investigate and get written statements etc. to supply to the NSCA Director or Executive Director the written complaint within thirty (30) days of the alleged violation. According to the rules the action of being disqualified from a shoot does not start disciplinary action. This took 1 month as per the rules
The NSCA Executive Council, along with the NSCA Executive Director took a further four or five days to reach a decision based on the evidenced submitted and inform the shooter which he then had another 21 days to appeal this further disciplinary action which is another month.
As an appeal was lodged by the shooter in question then all the evidence is now heard by NSSA Officers to see if they reach the same conclusion as the Executive Council and the shooter has the right to offer up evidence, the hearing has to by the rules take place at the next regularly scheduled quarterly meeting of the NSSA Officers.
This due to bad timing alone could be another 3 months away.
Hence, we have several months, however, the decisions of the NSCA Executive Council will remain in effect during the appeal process so whatever disciplinary action he has received will still be enforced during this time.
To be fair to the NSCA, NSSA Officers could live in a different time zone and are volunteers so organising a meeting just for this at short notice would seem a bit over the top if not impossible.
To be fair to the shooter he has to have the right of appeal, if not for the infraction then at least the duration of the disciplinary action and we have no idea what is being appealed.
Remember the disqualification from the shoot is not being appealed, that is final, it's just this further disciplinary action such as a ban or its length.
Northbrook took time to investigate and get written statements etc. to supply to the NSCA Director or Executive Director the written complaint within thirty (30) days of the alleged violation. According to the rules the action of being disqualified from a shoot does not start disciplinary action. This took 1 month as per the rules
The NSCA Executive Council, along with the NSCA Executive Director took a further four or five days to reach a decision based on the evidenced submitted and inform the shooter which he then had another 21 days to appeal this further disciplinary action which is another month.
As an appeal was lodged by the shooter in question then all the evidence is now heard by NSSA Officers to see if they reach the same conclusion as the Executive Council and the shooter has the right to offer up evidence, the hearing has to by the rules take place at the next regularly scheduled quarterly meeting of the NSSA Officers.
This due to bad timing alone could be another 3 months away.
Hence, we have several months, however, the decisions of the NSCA Executive Council will remain in effect during the appeal process so whatever disciplinary action he has received will still be enforced during this time.
To be fair to the NSCA, NSSA Officers could live in a different time zone and are volunteers so organising a meeting just for this at short notice would seem a bit over the top if not impossible.
To be fair to the shooter he has to have the right of appeal, if not for the infraction then at least the duration of the disciplinary action and we have no idea what is being appealed.
Remember the disqualification from the shoot is not being appealed, that is final, it's just this further disciplinary action such as a ban or its length.
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Now, say the appeal is lost by the shooter and the penalty is a one year suspension. Inherently, that's a ban from NSCA tournaments for one year. Not much of a punishment for a UK shooter. However, will the CPSA honor and mirror the penalty? That's what will be interesting to see as the shooter has already unequivocally been DQ'd for altering a scorecard.
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Timps ,
Very , very well explained .
The point I am trying to make is how poor our associations are at running a good ship .
Some of you may remember a very good friend of mine being banned some years ago for cheating which he admitted he did do , but his mitigating statement was that so was a many good few more . In fact he was so good of a shot that on one occassion he did shoot 51 at a 50 bird shoot , a true score because they had got the total of the stands incorrect , but you can imagine how much fuel that put on the bonfire . He now lives in Australia but comes over for holidays and still shoots brilliantly .
When I mentioned this current mess his reply was " He's been doing it for years ".
So as far as I am concerned you pay your money ,shoot to the best of your ability and if you have a good day , don't be surprised if you get beaten .
Remember 'the pen is mightier than the sword.'
Very , very well explained .
The point I am trying to make is how poor our associations are at running a good ship .
Some of you may remember a very good friend of mine being banned some years ago for cheating which he admitted he did do , but his mitigating statement was that so was a many good few more . In fact he was so good of a shot that on one occassion he did shoot 51 at a 50 bird shoot , a true score because they had got the total of the stands incorrect , but you can imagine how much fuel that put on the bonfire . He now lives in Australia but comes over for holidays and still shoots brilliantly .
When I mentioned this current mess his reply was " He's been doing it for years ".
So as far as I am concerned you pay your money ,shoot to the best of your ability and if you have a good day , don't be surprised if you get beaten .
Remember 'the pen is mightier than the sword.'
Sal I totally get what you are saying, when I first started shooting clays competitively many moons ago, I saw a county shooter unequivocally and blatantly cheat. As I was new to the game I kept quiet, some years later I related the tale to another well known shooter who’s words were wow I thought he was one of the good guys. There was another who I saw miss 4 clays but strangely had a 98 on the scoreboard at the end of the day so I know it goes on all too well.
Regarding this current shooter I have first-hand knowledge of an investigation at a major held at Hodnet, so when this story first broke on the internet forums minus the names and what had gone on I guessed a name and the alleged infraction. How shocked I wasn’t when I was informed of the alleged details.
We will see what transpires but I don't hold my breath of it ever changing anything in our sport
Regarding this current shooter I have first-hand knowledge of an investigation at a major held at Hodnet, so when this story first broke on the internet forums minus the names and what had gone on I guessed a name and the alleged infraction. How shocked I wasn’t when I was informed of the alleged details.
We will see what transpires but I don't hold my breath of it ever changing anything in our sport
DavidJ
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As timps has explained all associations have defined disciplinary processes that have to be followed.
It would be nice if it could be concluded quicker for all involved but it's the same in almost all areas of sport and life.
All we know at the moment is there's been a DQ followed by an appeal.
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