DTL advice...

[Salopian]

I think the Sporters are missing a very big issue here!

Because for instance in DTL you are subject to the pace of the competitor on your left, when it comes to your target you may well draw a short straw and have multiple hard left or hard rights in your sequence. I would defy anyone to shoot a 25 straight regularly in those circumstances, yes of course you can adjust your rythmn  to get on terms with the trap, but that is something else to factor into the process.

Credit where it is due ALL disciplines are difficult, we just enjoy some better than others.

BUT I think more top class Trap shooters can score higher at Sporting than top class Sporters can at Trap.

I only know one Sporter who is good at Trap , Richard Faulds.

All that being said, if you can shoot, most things are achievable.

 

[Sian]

Most answers so far have been pretty close to the mark, Trap Targets ARE easier taken individually with all other factors removed. Few would argue with the fact that DTL is particularly easy in target terms compared say to a tough stand at an ESP shoot where almost everyone drops one or two clays. 
 
I get told off everyday for looking blankly at my wife unable to concentrate a few seconds to hear what she's saying  but don't suffer the same symptoms when wiring in a new set of lights. It's just as hard to WIN at either and I've never said anything differently but when I go shooting on a Sunday I go to test my skills at hitting a multitude of targets plus the ability to hold my nerve and of course concentration (remember all shoots are won on the easy stands), what I can't put myself through every Sunday is testing primarily my concentration, I don't need a comp to tell me I'm crap at that.
 
If you take two discipline near virgins from ESP and ABT of comparable ability and after a practice round or two measure their performance against each others respective games, my guess is one virgin will walk away very much cross legged and I won't be so brash as to state which. B)
 
The DTL'er would do well not to lose outright. :lol:

I think I get what you are saying and am probably a good example.

I have been shooting one year and would be considered a hedge monkey, I love that term! BUT I love DTL and could quite happily shoot this all day long in search of a straight. I shoot 100 sporting targets every Sunday and when finances allow 200 (there are three in my family that shoot) but with DTL I only shoot this when we go home to Wales (couple of times a year) because I like to go to South Wales 2000 and when we go somewhere like Dartford specifically to do trap disciplines - again a couple of times a year.

Now the thing is I am still trying to average 50 at ESP - I am only allowed to shoot quality shoots but with DTL considering how little practise I get I can manage 19 or 20 out of 25 consistently and mostly first barrell kills - do the maths someone I failed my O level (GCSE for the younger ones amongst us).

It is not easier just different. with ESP I am having to build up a library of different targets, different speeds, different distances, different angles and so on but with DTL once you know what you are doing regarding where to hit the target, it is all about the skill of concentrating and holding your nerve to get to that straight - a difficult skill and I may never be able to achieve DTL nirvana. with OT and UT - I also struggle with the speed of it.

all disciplines are in their own right worthy and those that excel in their different disciplines have my utmost respect.

 

[ips]

Hammy

Thank you I see your point.

I agree and have stated many times that DTL targets are easy by comparison and as you and others have eluded too its putting 100 of them together that is the challenge. I suppose we are all different some of us like different targets every week and some of us like the repetition. Either way shootin is shootin and its all good fun.#

PS - I still say I wouldn't hit diddly at sporting

 

[** Pending Removal **]

I think the Sporters are missing a very big issue here!

Because for instance in DTL you are subject to the pace of the competitor on your left, when it comes to your target you may well draw a short straw and have multiple hard left or hard rights in your sequence. I would defy anyone to shoot a 25 straight regularly in those circumstances, yes of course you can adjust your rythmn to get on terms with the trap, but that is something else to factor into the process.

Credit where it is due ALL disciplines are difficult, we just enjoy some better than others.

BUT I think more top class Trap shooters can score higher at Sporting than top class Sporters can at Trap.

I only know one Sporter who is good at Trap , Richard Faulds.

All that being said, if you can shoot, most things are achievable.

Totally agree Salop. Take any ESP shooter on an OT layout and they would go away crying.....bar a few who can actually shoot quick targets when they do not know where they are coming from.

Then take them to Helice and tell them to bring their purse......I will be waiting :laugh: to help them shoot a target that they do not know where it is coming from or where it is going......instinctive shooting at its best :wink:

Having shot sporting and Fitasc sporting for years I have to admit that I enjoy going back in time and having a ping at sporting......but boy do I get bored now with the repeat pairs.....ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Ah well each to their own........at least some discussing it on here actually 'have shot' both types (sporting / trap) for a long time.....so I know who I listen to with interest.

:laugh:

 

[Will Poon]

The amount of time I've taken a friend to my local to have ago at clay shooting and we've walked around the sporting stands they hardly hit many as the clays are simulating birds in flight or rabbits from varying angles, distance and speed are more difficult than DTL as the clay comes out infront of you in the trap house, when majority of my friends have ago at DTL they hit more than sporting .
I'm no DTL shooter but I usually hit in the 80's , now if I can hit in the 80's with sporting consistantly I'll be an extremely happy bunny to say the least

 

[ips]

The amount of time I've taken a friend to my local to have ago at clay shooting and we've walked around the sporting stands they hardly hit many as the clays are simulating birds in flight or rabbits from varying angles, distance and speed are more difficult than DTL as the clay comes out infront of you in the trap house, when majority of my friends have ago at DTL they hit more than sporting . I'm no DTL shooter but I usually hit in the 80's , now if I can hit in the 80's with sporting consistantly I'll be an extremely happy bunny to say the least

Yes but there is no comparison with a sporting 80 and a DTL 80 that's the point. I don't know what class 80 ESP is but an 80 (kills) at DTL doesn't even get you started.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

The amount of time I've taken a friend to my local to have ago at clay shooting and we've walked around the sporting stands they hardly hit many as the clays are simulating birds in flight or rabbits from varying angles, distance and speed are more difficult than DTL as the clay comes out infront of you in the trap house, when majority of my friends have ago at DTL they hit more than sporting .

I'm no DTL shooter but I usually hit in the 80's , now if I can hit in the 80's with sporting consistantly I'll be an extremely happy bunny to say the least

So have you tried OT or UT where they are wound up a bit....?

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Yes but there is no comparison with a sporting 80 and a DTL 80 that's the point. I don't know what class 80 ESP is but an 80 (kills) at DTL doesn't even get you started.

Correct IPS.

80 is called 'no where near it' at DTL......true story.

 

[Will Poon]

Yes I know 80's is bugger all in DTL , but to have 100 cartridges to shoot at sporting or at DTL , DTL will get more hits as its an easier target compared to a sporting layout in my opinion .

 

[ips]

Yes true and therefore you have to hit more to be anywere near a respectable score, that does not make one any easier than the other to win. Lets be very clear about competitive shooting ..... you have to put a very good score in on the day to win anything regardless of what discipline or what class end of.

 

[Kentskeet]

I think the point being missed is DTL and other disciplines that have a set routine are a big bonus for Sporting shots, admittedly the targets are very similar and not quite as exciting as a well set up sporting layout, but you learn to concentrate, and hitting the big numbers inspires confidence to tackle any target that you may be presented with in any shooting that you do.

 

[FloaterSi]

Yes true and therefore you have to hit more to be anywere near a respectable score, that does not make one any easier than the other to win.

 I think there is some miss communication here and maybe a little bit of protectionism.  Nobody said that DTL was easier to win than sporting, they were saying (I think) it is easier to hit a target in DTL than sporting.  To quantify easier to win you would have to look at the numbers of shooters and the quality of the opposition - I don't think that can be done statistically.

 

[ExSCA]

I think the point being missed is DTL and other disciplines that have a set routine are a big bonus for Sporting shots, admittedly the targets are very similar and not quite as exciting as a well set up sporting layout, but you learn to concentrate, and hitting the big numbers inspires confidence to tackle any target that you may be presented with in any shooting that you do.

That's exactly why I am going to shoot some 'occasional' DTL - for routine, and concentration - which troubles me in Sporting, and especially in my chosen Sporting discipline - FITASC Sporting where many other things are NOT routine... I want to get better at controlling the things that I can. 

 

[** Pending Removal **]

I think there is some miss communication here and maybe a little bit of protectionism. Nobody said that DTL was easier to win than sporting, they were saying (I think) it is easier to hit a target in DTL than sporting. To quantify easier to win you would have to look at the numbers of shooters and the quality of the opposition - I don't think that can be done statistically.

Floater, please don't take this the wrong way ...but there are loads of easy sporting targets as well.....there are loads of easy Fitasc sporting targets as well.
In my experience sporting people classify targets in a simple way in their own head...

Easy......is normally determined by what you can hit well regularly....

.Hard ......is what you struggle to hit well regularly......

.Extreme....is what most people will never get the hang of in a million years.

But.....!

Everyone sees targets differently....and what is easy for one person is a nightmare for others......

Example.......choose which of the following two birds is easy and which is hard....

1) an edge on right to left 90 degree crosser flying horizontal across the tops of a line of trees at about 50-60 m and the spring is wound up.

2) an incommer starting at 50m in front of you from a low trap that travels over your left shoulder about the distance of a target on a skeet range (peg1 low house).....trap not wound up.

Which is 'your' easy target???

 

[ExSCA]

Well - neither of those two for me  :crazy:  - but that's my ability at issue!

I agree completely with your point here, people "grade" targets by how well they hit them - I can think of plenty of examples when I have gone back to the club house to compare notes with friends - and found what I thought was really hard was really easy for them - and vice versa. 

 

[FloaterSi]

Floater, please don't take this the wrong way ...but there are loads of easy sporting targets as well.....there are loads of easy Fitasc sporting targets as well.

In my experience sporting people classify targets in a simple way in their own head...

Easy......is normally determined by what you can hit well regularly....

.Hard ......is what you struggle to hit well regularly......

.Extreme....is what most people will never get the hang of in a million years.

But.....!

Everyone sees targets differently....and what is easy for one person is a nightmare for others......

Example.......choose which of the following two birds is easy and which is hard....

1) an edge on right to left 90 degree crosser flying horizontal across the tops of a line of trees at about 50-60 m and the spring is wound up.

2) an incommer starting at 50m in front of you from a low trap that travels over your left shoulder about the distance of a target on a skeet range (peg1 low house).....trap not wound up.

Which is 'your' easy target???

I agree different targets are harder/easier for different people - that is what makes it fun.  However, as Hamster said - 80's in Sporting is very good, but 80's in DTL is  not even close.  Looking at the CPSA averages you see that the average score for DTL is far higher than that of sporting - therefore you can conclude that it is easier to hit a target in DTL than sporting.  Even if you were to take factors such as the average DTL shooter may have far more shooting experience than a sporter (as most people start of in Sporting) I still think the numbers will show that the average DTL score is higher than that of sporting.  That is not to say that to win at DTL is easy, its not.

For me no targets are easy - but I find left to right crossers particularly hard.  Anything straightish I expect to score more on.

 

[Les53]

I agree different targets are harder/easier for different people - that is what makes it fun.  However, as Hamster said - 80's in Sporting is very good, but 80's in DTL is  not even close.  Looking at the CPSA averages you see that the average score for DTL is far higher than that of sporting - therefore you can conclude that it is easier to hit a target in DTL than sporting.  Even if you were to take factors such as the average DTL shooter may have far more shooting experience than a sporter (as most people start of in Sporting) I still think the numbers will show that the average DTL score is higher than that of sporting.  That is not to say that to win at DTL is easy, its not.

For me no targets are easy - but I find left to right crossers particularly hard.  Anything straightish I expect to score more on.

The unfortunate and infuriating thing with DTL, is the fact that even if you hit 100 straight, it's useless if too many of those kills were from the second tube!!!

 

[ips]

And in a major even a 300 will only get you into a shoot off. in some other trap disciplines you could come good on the day and win outright but Dtl is similar in some respects to ot were first you have to get into the shoot off then you get weeded out.

 

[Les53]

And in a major even a 300 will only get you into a shoot off. in some other trap disciplines you could come good on the day and win outright but Dtl is similar in some respects to ot were first you have to get into the shoot off then you get weeded out.

Ian I think I would rather try to win the world OT championship than try to win the krieghoff!! At the very top level in dtl it is astonishingly hard to get anywhere near those boys,probably more so than at OT! Many scoff at dtl as we know,but in its own way it can be every bit as hard as OT!!

 

[Andy S]

Ian I think I would rather try to win the world OT championship than try to win the krieghoff!! At the very top level in dtl it is astonishingly hard to get anywhere near those boys,probably more so than at OT! Many scoff at dtl as we know,but in its own way it can be every bit as hard as OT!!

 This weekends Perazzi DTL Grand prix was won by Austin Coxhead on a 200 - 597 only 3 second barrel kills out of 200 targets...........

http://www.bywellshootingground.co.uk/phpmedia/docs/a766fd4e42090e8af66dbc267bdb5085.pdf