EJ Churchill 2.1.14

[emvicne]

1.4 ENTRY FEES & PRIZES

At all registered events organisers must, prior to the commencement of the event, display the following information:

a) The ‘Prize’ entry fee which must include the full amount to be paid back in prizes.

b )The ‘"Targets-Only"’ entry fee which must exclude the prize money stated above.

c) The amount to be returned to ‘Prize’ entrants only, which must be the exact difference between a) and b ) above and...

d) The amount of ‘Specified Sponsored Cash’, if any, to be paid to any winner.

At all County, Regional and National Championships not organised by CPSA Head Office, the same entry fee will apply to all participants. Grounds are not permitted to charge ‘green fees’ to non club members, nor to give their own members any discount. Any levies applied by official County or Regional Committees must be charged to all entrants.

 

[Will Hewland]

Nice idea, but how can a ground display the amount to be paid back before an event where casual entries are taken on the day? Fine if its all booked up a week before..

 

[RobertBeard]

SO GROUNDS SHOULD BE PAYING OUT ALL THE PRIZE ENTRY MONIES AS PRIZE CASH!

 

[tiptop]

^^^^^Booklet 5 CPSA general rules and regulations^^^^^^

 

[Darkside]

Nice idea, but how can a ground display the amount to be paid back before an event where casual entries are taken on the day? Fine if its all booked up a week before..

...prize monies will be paid out of a prize pool dependent on entery on compitition entry's at £5 (or whatever) per compitition entry, 100 entry's = £500 prize pool... Simples!!!

 

[Darkside]

Clever, we know your half way up their arse, but from 100's of miles away the prize money looks miserable and not paying out for a month makes them a laughing stock...what's that all about!?!?

 

[Hamster]

Clever, we know your half way up their arse, but from 100's of miles away the prize money looks miserable and not paying out for a month makes them a laughing stock...what's that all about!?!?

That's not as bizzare as it appears, a lot of grounds only do one reg a month and it takes a while to calculate the winners and their purses so paying up the following month isn't the end of the world. It's years and years since people waited around for shoot off's or brown envelopes.

 

[emvicne]

It's pretty clear. Birds only is the price that ground charges which presumably they anticipate to cover all their overheads.

Competition = birds only cost PLUS the prize money.

All of the prize money gets added together and then when the shoot is finished is divided up between the winners.

Interestingly, it doesn't say that the money has to stay in class.....

Grounds can add extra sponsored money if they like (eg. High gun or class or category prizes)

 

[Clynt]

Surely it's time to list all entrants to any Reg comp as either "birds only" or "competition " prize funds could then be posted with in relevant times of entries closing...by this I mean the amounts due back to each class, places would sorted as cards came in ?

it would be so easy to assume this cloak and dagger attitude at the moment by some grounds "could " be construed as reluctance to pay back "ALL"whats due ???

so the big question is WHY does it happen ?

are we as shooters who pay up front being treated with a little contempt ?

if what as been said regarding waiting a month for any winnings is true ??? is it a ploy to insure entries at the next shoot ? and if not surely someone can post on here and clear the whole saga up 

 

[ExSCA]

I reckon it's pretty easy to do - on the day, and be clear and transparent - I just knocked up a simple excel spreadsheet that a ground could use to put the numbers in straight away...with various transparent allocations per class and category. 

Grounds could easily round up prize funds if they wanted to , and allocate a HG prize... happy to share the spreadsheet if anyone wants it, can be easily tweaked.

(Happy if anyone spots ways it could be improved)

Prize Money Example.pdf

 

[ExSCA]

By the way - those are dummy numbers I just put in to change the maths - but yellow fields just need to be adjusted per shoot (even AS people are booking in)... 

 

[Nick Selby]

I really can't see how it can be that difficult to sort out on the day. The prize money is similar to that of Bullseye and Jim used to count that out in the commercial break... Surely they are a big enough company to have a prize money pot/reserve pot?...

 

[Will Hewland]

It's pretty clear. Birds only is the price that ground charges which presumably they anticipate to cover all their overheads.

Competition = birds only cost PLUS the prize money.

All of the prize money gets added together and then when the shoot is finished is divided up between the winners.

Interestingly, it doesn't say that the money has to stay in class.....

Grounds can add extra sponsored money if they like (eg. High gun or class or category prizes)

I am sure that this is what EJC do and it stays in class. I am also pretty sure that their not paying on the day is simply an admin thing, where they have not yet gone through the figures and worked out the pot and payouts.
What it is important to remember with EJ Churchill, is that they are a larger business. Their front desk is dealing with a whole raft of tasks during the day, with the reg shoot being just one of them, so they will be using back room staff to sort this out, likely a day or two later. Most shoots we go to are run by a Husband and wife, dealing solely with the shoot on that day. This can mean that they are more focused on the shoot admin and easier to talk to than a larger business with a reception desk can ever be.

I know that EJC are very keen to make this a great shoot in all respects and if it means clarifying the prize element, then they will.

 

[rgv_stu]

as soon as last entry time is up then its should be a simple 30min task to sort out the prize money pot, easily giving the opportunity to pay out very soon after the last cards come in. it really isnt rocket science.

 

[ExSCA]

It would take 10 seconds with the spreadsheet above... pop the numbers in, press print. 

 

[emvicne]

I am sure that this is what EJC do and it stays in class. I am also pretty sure that their not paying on the day is simply an admin thing, where they have not yet gone through the figures and worked out the pot and payouts.

What it is important to remember with EJ Churchill, is that they are a larger business. Their front desk is dealing with a whole raft of tasks during the day, with the reg shoot being just one of them, so they will be using back room staff to sort this out, likely a day or two later. Most shoots we go to are run by a Husband and wife, dealing solely with the shoot on that day. This can mean that they are more focused on the shoot admin and easier to talk to than a larger business with a reception desk can ever be.

I know that EJC are very keen to make this a great shoot in all respects and if it means clarifying the prize element, then they will.

The competition entry to shoot EJC is £39 (more than the average shoot). They have significantly greater resources than the average family run shoot where husband/wife/children are dealing with entries, traps, catering etc. A professional shoot should set the gold standard as they do have the resources.

Counting X entries in class Y and multiplying by the prize fund monies per competitor is not rocket science. They have the time between the last card being sent out and the last card returned to ascertain prize fund and distribution down the classes. That is ample. One month is a joke. Do they pay interest?!?

An excellent example of a comparable business is Sporting Targets. They send out cheques in the post within a day or two of a registered shoot to those who aren't there at end to collect money. That's gold service.

There should be clarity at all shoots running registered shoots - the prize fund belongs to the shooters, not the grounds. They are effectively holding the money in trust!

 

[Will Hewland]

The competition entry to shoot EJC is £39 (more than the average shoot). They have significantly greater resources than the average family run shoot where husband/wife/children are dealing with entries, traps, catering etc. A professional shoot should set the gold standard as they do have the resources.

Counting X entries in class Y and multiplying by the prize fund monies per competitor is not rocket science. They have the time between the last card being sent out and the last card returned to ascertain prize fund and distribution down the classes. That is ample. One month is a joke. Do they pay interest?!?

An excellent example of a comparable business is Sporting Targets. They send out cheques in the post within a day or two of a registered shoot to those who aren't there at end to collect money. That's gold service.

There should be clarity at all shoots running registered shoots - the prize fund belongs to the shooters, not the grounds. They are effectively holding the money in trust!

EJC do not keep funds! And I'm sure that they want to lead the way in service too. They have been making lots of improvements there, both on the ground and in the clubhouse. This clarity of prize fund business is a small thing that I am sure they will improve..

 

[RobertBeard]

I have no idea what 'they' do.....I put what I would do.......please keep up sweetie

Big smiley and lots of kisses :wink: from iPhone

So you wouldn't be playing by the rules if a ground owner then! 

Now you seem to have slipped behind sweetie!  :flowers:

 

[Darkside]

I am sure that this is what EJC do and it stays in class. I am also pretty sure that their not paying on the day is simply an admin thing, where they have not yet gone through the figures and worked out the pot and payouts.

What it is important to remember with EJ Churchill, is that they are a larger business. Their front desk is dealing with a whole raft of tasks during the day, with the reg shoot being just one of them, so they will be using back room staff to sort this out, likely a day or two later. Most shoots we go to are run by a Husband and wife, dealing solely with the shoot on that day. This can mean that they are more focused on the shoot admin and easier to talk to than a larger business with a reception desk can ever be.

I know that EJC are very keen to make this a great shoot in all respects and if it means clarifying the prize element, then they will.

So let's just get this straight...because EJC have more staff and resources, that makes then LESS efficient!?!? WOW!!!

 

[Steve Lovatt]

From Ally:

It takes about 5 mins at the end of the day to work out how much money is in the classes. The shoot08 programme does it for you. Having said that, I mark each Bo entry then whatever the total is, deduct the bo entry (eg 150 entries, 20 are bo leaves 130 X 5 for prize pot plus whatever we are adding in such as hg £150 etc) shoot08 also tells you how many people from each class.

From Steve:

I just want to know what the doubling up prize money was all about, what was meant and was it doubling up 1st place in the classes or going down the ranks. Because I was 2nd in AA and Harry was just 3rd in c.

As for Churchills being a bigger business, that might be the case but they either do reg shoots properly or don't do them at all. Don't treat it as a quick cash cow.