EJ Churchill 2.1.14

[emvicne]

EJC do not keep funds! And I'm sure that they want to lead the way in service too. They have been making lots of improvements there, both on the ground and in the clubhouse. This clarity of prize fund business is a small thing that I am sure they will improve..

I assume they don't keep funds permanently - but one month is too long. Prizes should be available on the day!

And when running a competition shoot, the clarity of the prize fund distribution is paramount. It does their business no good allowing for this situation and discord to have arisen.

Lots of shoots (whether small family run or corporate in nature), are able to provide a clear breakdown of prize money and distribution by the end of a shoot. EJC need to do better.

 

[Will Hewland]

No.. Because they have the desk dealing with lessons, bookings, practice rounds, retail sales, telephone enquiries, questions about cartridges AND running the CPSA shoot, they have a thinner spread of time per person available to look at the shoot than most places. And as I said before, I am sure that they will react when they hear that they can improve in an area. As they did with the way they handle scores on the day and booking recently. Not many grounds allow you to sit in comfy chairs, in a large elegant clubhouse, looking at a 42" results screen while sipping proper coffee.

Hang in there folks. Be positive, they only want to do this well.

 

[Hamster]

I know coffee is free so I ordered a hot chocolate and left when they forgot about it being too busy, was I outraged ? No. Perhaps a small hardcore of people waiting till last orders would benefit from prizes being available on the spot but a great many would leave to get home anyway so what's the fuss ?

 

[emvicne]

No.. Because they have the desk dealing with lessons, bookings, practice rounds, retail sales, telephone enquiries, questions about cartridges AND running the CPSA shoot, they have a thinner spread of time per person available to look at the shoot than most places. And as I said before, I am sure that they will react when they hear that they can improve in an area. As they did with the way they handle scores on the day and booking recently. Not many grounds allow you to sit in comfy chairs, in a large elegant clubhouse, looking at a 42" results screen while sipping proper coffee.

Hang in there folks. Be positive, they only want to do this well.

Sporting Targets is a similar outfit and manage to do so without difficulty.

 

[Will Hewland]

Sporting Targets is a similar outfit and manage to do so without difficulty.

Agreed, its possible. Although the shop is a separate side entity at ST? Anyway.. I'm sure things will happen..

 

[** Pending Removal **]

So you wouldn't be playing by the rules if a ground owner then!

Now you seem to have slipped behind sweetie! :flowers:

Are you getting any of this conversation or are you falling behind..?

Show me the rules...?

As I said before....the ground owners are the 'only' ones who can make up the rules. They are independents.

As for the other bits....I did say clearly 'if I was Queen'....

You are tiring me out Bobby :wink:

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Totally agree Robert. I suspect what Nicola means is that any extra is at grounds discretion.. But I'm sure she will be along to speak for herself.

smilie on iPad done by colon and close bracket.

If I was Queen.....I would payout £1 in every £5 difference between BO and comp...to the peasants only...!

....just saying...!

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[Will Hewland]

If I was Queen.....I would payout £1 in every £5 difference between BO and comp...to the peasants only...!

....just saying...!

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And I am sure you would also let them eat cake.

 

[emvicne]

The fact of the matter is that if a ground wishes to host a Cpsa registered event, they should adhere to Cpsa rules.

The rules are clear - the difference between the competition and birds only elements of the entry fee is PRIZE money.

How the ground owners choose to distribute the prize fund (ie whether between categories, classes, high gun) appears to be open to the ground owner.

 

[sarachambers]

The fact of the matter is that if a ground wishes to host a Cpsa registered event, they should adhere to Cpsa rules.

The rules are clear - the difference between the competition and birds only elements of the entry fee is PRIZE money.

How the ground owners choose to distribute the prize fund (ie whether between categories, classes, high gun) appears to be open to the ground owner.

Emma is entirely correct!

 

[Will Hewland]

The fact of the matter is that if a ground wishes to host a Cpsa registered event, they should adhere to Cpsa rules.

The rules are clear - the difference between the competition and birds only elements of the entry fee is PRIZE money.

How the ground owners choose to distribute the prize fund (ie whether between categories, classes, high gun) appears to be open to the ground owner.

Yes. EJC do that.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

1.4 ENTRY FEES & PRIZES

At all registered events organisers must, prior to the commencement of the event, display the following information:

a) The ‘Prize’ entry fee which must include the full amount to be paid back in prizes.

b )The ‘"Targets-Only"’ entry fee which must exclude the prize money stated above.

c) The amount to be returned to ‘Prize’ entrants only, which must be the exact difference between a) and b ) above and...

d) The amount of ‘Specified Sponsored Cash’, if any, to be paid to any winner.

At all County, Regional and National Championships not organised by CPSA Head Office, the same entry fee will apply to all participants. Grounds are not permitted to charge ‘green fees’ to non club members, nor to give their own members any discount. Any levies applied by official County or Regional Committees must be charged to all entrants.

Only ever see that put up at 'some' shoots.....and it does not address the point i posed....that was specify the rules of how the prize fund is payed out....because Cpsa cannot specify it as it is nothing to do with them....they can only put in their rules the above which says there is to be a fund (expect for BO or English where they decide their own prize fund)....because it is down to the grounds who are independant and the only ones to make any payout decisions....just saying.

I know I am northern ....but I do try to speaky the Hinglish..!

 

[sarachambers]

Whilst the Cpsa rules do not specify distribution (a shoot's high gun could take the whole pot of a ground so wished), it's clear that only prize shooters are eligible (rule 1.5).

All grounds SHOULD make it clear what's going into prize fund - and that's the whole extra comp element.

It's not rocket science.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

I reckon it's pretty easy to do - on the day, and be clear and transparent - I just knocked up a simple excel spreadsheet that a ground could use to put the numbers in straight away...with various transparent allocations per class and category.

Grounds could easily round up prize funds if they wanted to , and allocate a HG prize... happy to share the spreadsheet if anyone wants it, can be easily tweaked.

(Happy if anyone spots ways it could be improved)

Prize Money Example.pdf

Sorry I am on catch up post by post ....

Great idea Matt but it could only be posted after the last person has booked on (re the different class payouts)

And folks....as I keep saying ...there are no rules to say how categories and classes have to be paid out. Those rules are made by each ground as they see fit. In theory...but not in practice...they could award (out if a total prize fund of say £300)....£1 each to the AAA, AA, B, C classes...and the rest to Ladies :wink:

This is just to show that no rules exist for percentage payouts or even category payouts...

So what I am saying is that people vote with there feet and go to where they enjoy and where they feel they have been treated well......because let's face it....most will not be in any payout.

Back to my original comment....EJ Churchills is an honourable company and I expect that they will deal with any payouts fairly.

 

[RobertBeard]

Are you getting any of this conversation or are you falling behind..?

Show me the rules...?

As I said before....the ground owners are the 'only' ones who can make up the rules. They are independents.

As for the other bits....I did say clearly 'if I was Queen'....

You are tiring me out Bobby :wink:

See post number 60 on this thread put up by EMVICNE!

Sorry if i'm exhausting you! :training:

 

[** Pending Removal **]

How the ground owners choose to distribute the prize fund (ie whether between categories, classes, high gun) appears to be open to the ground owner.

Said this ages ago... Just saying :wink:

 

[** Pending Removal **]

See post number 60 on this thread put up by EMVICNE!

I am on iPhone no numbers sorry...

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[sarachambers]

Nic, I think your posts may have been ambiguous as I had understood you were suggesting that Cpsa had no remit over prize fund at all. As we have all agreed, they do - in that they require that the "prize pot" is additional to BO, and that only prize shooters eligible to win. What they don't do is set out required distribution of prize pot for standard registered shoots

 

[** Pending Removal **]

No.. Because they have the desk dealing with lessons, bookings, practice rounds, retail sales, telephone enquiries, questions about cartridges AND running the CPSA shoot, they have a thinner spread of time per person available to look at the shoot than most places. And as I said before, I am sure that they will react when they hear that they can improve in an area. As they did with the way they handle scores on the day and booking recently. Not many grounds allow you to sit in comfy chairs, in a large elegant clubhouse, looking at a 42" results screen while sipping proper coffee.

Hang in there folks. Be positive, they only want to do this well.

Well said Will.

And that is the point. EJC has put a lot of investment into the ground since I was there earlier last year.

They have an important private client base that...1. Is happy to be there....2. Respects the hard work done on the infra structure to make it an enjoyable place to spend time shooting or learning to shoot.

They only do a small amount of registered shoots because it simply is not their main business. No one makes a good living out of CPSA reg shoots....that is why many grounds have stopped it.....true story!!

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Nic, I think your posts may have been ambiguous as I had understood you were suggesting that Cpsa had no remit over prize fund at all. As we have all agreed, they do - in that they require that the "prize pot" is additional to BO, and that only prize shooters eligible to win. What they don't do is set out required distribution of prize pot for standard registered shoots

No ....allocation of prize fund only.

You know how thorough I am on articles etc plus I have sat through many complaint issues about payouts over the years as a director ....and there is sod all CPSA can do about it.

Independent grounds...independent prize pot (shooters money).....only one to decide payout is the grounds.

But :wink: if I was Queen.... :laugh: I would ban the moaners from my ground. And post a big notice saying ..'I decide where the prize pot goes...so behave yourself or it goes to the class either side of you'..... :laugh: