FAULTY MULLER CHOKE

[Gee]

I too would quite like to know if say for arguments sake a teague choke key would be suitable for a factory or muller choke?

I use one for my Mullers, a friction fit key is a friction fit key, any one will work.....its in their nature.

 

[EdSolomons]

I suppose it depends how good you are at fingering...

 

[** Pending Removal **]

I suppose it depends how good you are at fingering...

Said Mr Warm fingers.

Ed's back..!

:laugh:

 

[Azzurri]

My personal preference are the stainless steel tapered friction fit keys. Several aftermarket manufacturers, including Teague, produce them.

Kindest regards,

Nick

Nick

I would've thought a stainless steel tapered choke key could possibly damage the coating on a choke and also over time prolonged use of a steel tapered choke key could stretch/strain the much softer alluminium choke resulting in more (alleged) cracked/damaged chokes ?

The external finger grooves machined into the chokes are enough to hold them tight and the best advice I would offer would be to keep checking your chokes tightness between stands.

Also as gasses seem to be getting under some chokes in certain cases (allegedly) I would pay mega attention to cleaning the area where the choke seats into the barrel, you may think your choke is tight but is it actually seated correctly ?

Good safety is no accident...as someone once said  :codemafia:

G.

 

[Guerini Guy]

"I suppose it depends how good you are at fingering"

Reminds me of my favourite T-Shirt . . . . . . . . . . 

 

[schmokinn]

Could I possibly ask how long you have been shooting Schmokinn?

Just out of interest.

hi,i have been shooting approximately 12/13 years without getting my licence out to have a look at the exact date.;-)

 

[schmokinn]

I also agree that Nicky is an honest man who puts himself out to help people.

I also note that one person's feeling of tight is different to another's ....as shown in tightening of stock bolts. Too tight and you can crack a stock...and too loose and you can crack a stock through recoil. So it is really normal to use a choke key in relation to chokes which can of course work loose with shooting if only finger tight.

This sort of thing is part of a learning curve in shooting.

A lesson for everyone reading I think.

hi,i understand what you are saying but i have a pretty good idea of relative tightness (30 year background as a mechanic) so though it may be a learning curve for somebody without any experience i would suggest i am pretty close to the end of that curve.

   rgds Mark

 

[schmokinn]

"I suppose it depends how good you are at fingering"

Reminds me of my favourite T-Shirt . . . . . . . . . . 

'>

lmao...i now know what to get my mate for his b'day!

 

[Hamster]

The external finger grooves machined into the chokes are enough to hold them tight and the best advice I would offer would be to keep checking your chokes tightness between stands.

I simply use a cheap Beretta choke key to tighten them using said outside finger grooves. 

 

[** Pending Removal **]

hi,i understand what you are saying but i have a pretty good idea of relative tightness (30 year background as a mechanic) so though it may be a learning curve for somebody without any experience i would suggest i am pretty close to the end of that curve.

   rgds Mark

Fair point. As a mechanic you would know what finger tight means.
Good point made by Az above about the seating of chokes.

Clean your threads peeps.

 

[Nicky T]

Nick

I would've thought a stainless steel tapered choke key could possibly damage the coating on a choke and also over time prolonged use of a steel tapered choke key could stretch/strain the much softer alluminium choke resulting in more (alleged) cracked/damaged chokes ?

Also as gasses seem to be getting under some chokes in certain cases (allegedly) I would pay mega attention to cleaning the area where the choke seats into the barrel, you may think your choke is tight but is it actually seated correctly ?

Good safety is no accident...as someone once said  :codemafia:

G.

Hi Graeme,

In actual fact the coating on the chokes will not wear when it comes into contact with Stainless. It's so hard that it actually polishes the stainless as the picture below shows:

The lower ring shows where I tighten the U3's (tighter constriction so lower on the taper) and the upper ring shows where I tighten the U1's (more open constriction so higher on the taper).

Great point about cleaning where the choke seats as I suspect that is an often overlooked area by many shooters.

Nick

 

[Joe Nash]

OPTIMA HP U2 coating missing from inside approx a 1/4 of the way round the choke and goes from the bottom for about 10 mm i would say its arch shaped and it is misshapen (belled out), on the outside a large patch where the coating seems to have melted.

i discovered this when cleaning the gun and finding it extremely tight to remove,this may also explain why i couldn't seem to hit anything when the week before with a different choke i shot fine.

i returned the choke to nick at just choking who told me it was a problem with the coating and replaced it.

when returning it i was asked what revision it was (rev.0) this would make you think there was an upgrade/modification but no i received another revision zero.

i queried this making this point and was then told it was my fault the choke had been loose and this had caused the problem! and that there was no problem with the choke.

bit hard to believe for several reasons the main one being that i as a matter of habit check the tightness of the chokes regularly during my round and generally just before i shoot a stand and had not noticed it becoming loose.

in the process of text messages back and forth (he does not seem to want to speak on the phone for some reason i do not understand) he then tells me it  needs to be more than finger tight..the website states they only need to be hand tight and seen as the fingers on the end of them do the work i do not see how i could have failed to follow the instructions.

also i have seen it stated on this site that they do not shoot loose!

i feel i am in a quandary caused by contradiction.

i really struggle to have any confidence with the item as i was told it was one thing and then another

do i take a chance with the replacement choke in my near new Beretta risking the chance of damage to the barrel because i am told there was no problem with the choke,as there obviously was?

or do i just chuck it away or sell it and go back to a teague?

has anyone else had any problems with Muller chokes as in is this a one off?

looking forward to hearing your thoughts and/or experiences.

Dont know if this will help ,but a friend of mine has a 692 and has a problem with the bottom barrel that when he uses it, he gets black crap coming past the outside of the choke tube but not in the top barrel. He said none of his chokes will seat correctly in the bottom barrel, so he is taking it back to the shop as a faulty gun or get new barrels fitted to it. Joe   :shocked:    I told him to buy a Miroku Fixed Choke, ..

 

[schmokinn]

Hi,funnily enough it is a beretta,an a400 excel which is only a couple of months old but i get no problems with other chokes standard or aftermarket.

   cheers Mark

 

[Azzurri]

Hi Graeme,

In actual fact the coating on the chokes will not wear when it comes into contact with Stainless. It's so hard that it actually polishes the stainless as the picture below shows:

tapered_choke.JPG

The lower ring shows where I tighten the U3's (tighter constriction so lower on the taper) and the upper ring shows where I tighten the U1's (more open constriction so higher on the taper).

Great point about cleaning where the choke seats as I suspect that is an often overlooked area by many shooters.

Nick

Sorry Nick i'm going to have to disagree, the choke ring thing is rubbish....you would still get those rings if the choke was made of plastic or wood. You could polish one side of the key with a cloth and after a while it would be shinier than the other side. So by your logic the cloth is harder than steel !!!!

I'd be interested to know has Jim started selling choke keys now and what is his official stance on his chokes coming loose as the last I heard he was recommending using a quality grease to keep them from moving ? 

RESPONSE FROM JIM MULLER; MULLER CHOKES

"Hi Graeme, Actually nick is 100% correct about the tapered choke wrench. Basically the ceramic hardness on my chokes is 62 Rockwell (RC) range. If you were to spin that Steel Tapered wrench inside my choke, it would wear a groove into the tapered wrench or key as you call it. 

As for a wrench that works well with my chokes and others is the Carlson's Choke wrench. Also called a speed Wrench.

As for grease, anyone that has any type of mechanical background would know you should never install threads on threads dry, especially when heat and vibration are a factor. So of course grease dampens harmonics and heat resulting in helping keep them tight. It also avoids condensation from rusting your barrels inside.

Any other questions, I'm here to help."

 

 

[ips]

Wow, hell of a thread this.

My two peneth for what its worth.

1st nicks replies are very professional and very non confrontational he was obviously trying very hard at first not to blame the problem on user error and offered to replace or refund, what more can you do ?

2nd from an engineering perspective its possible that a small amount of debris stopped the choke from seating fully or faulty threads or faulty barrel or indeed faulty choke but other than the latter its not nicks problem and as stated earlier he replaced with no issues so he cant do anymore than that.

 

[schmokinn]

Wow, hell of a thread this.

My two peneth for what its worth.

1st nicks replies are very professional and very non confrontational he was obviously trying very hard at first not to blame the problem on user error and offered to replace or refund, what more can you do ?

2nd from an engineering perspective its possible that a small amount of debris stopped the choke from seating fully or faulty threads or faulty barrel or indeed faulty choke but other than the latter its not nicks problem and as stated earlier he replaced with no issues so he cant do anymore than that.

thanks so much for your input,and i agree most of nicks replies have been professionally worded.

unfortunately i have read the debris comment on more than one post already and resisted answering but here goes.

the problem being with that is that i installed the choke after cleaning the gun and am very thorough about this so am absolutely positive debris was not an issue in the problem.

i hope that clears it up but i am sure i will be castigated by the many muller fans on this site for not toeing the party line.

   rgds Mark

 

[schmokinn]

To nick,seen as i have answered all questions on this thread can i ask you how long you have been shooting and what is your engineering background?

   rgds Mark

 

[** Pending Removal **]

That is quite unfair to people who have posted really. People post in order to help with possible reasons for your problem.

To be clear.....I have no Muller chokes and therefore will not offer anymore comment.

The simple thing is to send them back and then you will not have to comment further.....just an idea.

#cantpleaseallthefolksallthetime

 

[** Pending Removal **]

To nick,seen as i have answered all questions on this thread can i ask you how long you have been shooting and what is your engineering background?

rgds Mark

30 years ....full competition shooter...multi discipline....any shoot in the world that i fancy in any discipline and (not that it should make a difference) I am a mechanical engineer now retired from working in various countries around the World in the Petrocarbon industries (plus Nuclear power stations) .

Now how does that help you?

 

[ExSCA]

I think he means Truter... not Tinker.