Fixed choke - opening it up!

[chippy]

This is a good point

But unfortunately not a true one. At 9 yards a 1/2 choke gave a 3" pattern a cyl choke gave a 7" pattern.

 

[Cosmicblue]

I've drawn the conclusion over time that for the most part and with my distinctly limited ability chokes are somewhat of a head-game variable.  

If the lead is in the right place it will break the target...add the variable that different carts and shot sizes pattern differently in different guns then it's a very difficult call for a normal mortal to make an informed decision.

I've experimented with different carts and a pattern plate (my DSR is fixed choke 1/4 and 1/2) and have learned that cheapo Jockers pattern much more consistently than say an Fblack which tend to be centre-dense, the cart of choice right now is the F3 Piston (thanks to Geordieboy for that steer) which seems very even.  

 

[balltrap]

But unfortunately not a true one. At 9 yards a 1/2 choke gave a 3" pattern a cyl choke gave a 7" pattern.

So your playing with 4 inch at 9 yards ..........................use a air rifle at that distance

 

[Hamster]

Some say 100 chips are better than 99 smokers, I would take the smokers, using open chokes can give you the odd extra kill but did you hit it with the top, bottom, or edge of the pattern, of course, you will never know !  shooting tight chokes you will know your on it. Just my view and i will not be convinced otherwise Those that shoot sporting will say what about a close driven target, i would say even with open chokes the shot does not have time to open up on them.

You will learn more shooting tighter chokes

Not only are you right to take the smokes, statistically speaking you will not be getting them there 100 chips   anyway, that's what those chips are desperately trying to communicate to you in the first place : guvner we're a hairs breath from a miss. 

People can straight Skeet targets with 1/4 choke or less even if they're fast with the pairs but you will not get away with it on a varied ESP course that contains distant edge on birds, eventually you will miss through lack of density. 

Regarding the driven, I'm afraid that's an old wives tale, Cyl or Sk is noticeably better on very close shots. 

 

[balltrap]

Regarding the driven, I'm afraid that's an old wives tale, Cyl or Sk is noticeably better on very close shots. 

Hammy if you can shoot it makes no difference to cly or full on a close target .......your on it or not

I did not mean to hurt or confuse any beginners in this post

 

[Mutley]

Get some No 10 shot for close stuff, I remember using it on starshot when I had a dabble at York many years ago, cracking shot for up to 25 yards stuff.

Choke is a head game, I have shot OT and stupid distance sporting both with good scores with a Vostock MU 108 26" Tula choked skeet gun, just put in quality ammo for the job, have also had decent scores at all disciplines with an old full and full 32" Browning Lightning, again play with the ammo.

So to the OP, leave it be and play with ammo to get the desired result......

 

[chippy]

Regarding the driven, I'm afraid that's an old wives tale, Cyl or Sk is noticeably better on very close shots. 

Hammy if you can shoot it makes no difference to cly or full on a close target .......your on it or not

I did not mean to hurt or confuse any beginners in this post

Iam deeply hurt and confused.

 

[balltrap]

Iam deeply hurt and confused.

GOOD :lol:

 

[Paul120]

Regarding the driven, I'm afraid that's an old wives tale, Cyl or Sk is noticeably better on very close shots

If you search the internet you can find the results of tests that show this.

There is a dramatic difference between cylinder and 1/4 but once you go tighter than 1/4 the difference to full isn't nearly so much.

Check the % ages. 

I did a round of sporting with a top sporting shot known for using very tight chokes. However when we came to a close rabbit about 10 to 15 yards away he changed to cylinder and you could see from the dust being kicked up how much more effective his pattern was compared to the small holes I was drilling in the ground with 3/4.

From then on,  while I still generally use tightish chokes carry a Cylinder choke in my pocket just in case. 

 

[ChrisPackham]

But unfortunately not a true one. At 9 yards a 1/2 choke gave a 3" pattern a cyl choke gave a 7" pattern.

Oh... shame, that made sense to me... desperately need to set up a pattern plate to see how this stuff really works.  I have only patterned the tighter chokes to measure poi and noticed that there was little difference from 5/8 onwards.

 

[Hamster]

Hammy if you can shoot it makes no difference to cly or full on a close target .......your on it or not

I did not mean to hurt or confuse any beginners in this post

Therein lies the problem, if.

Almost all top end shooters rely on their ability to place the pattern accurately in the first place hence it makes no difference to them but to believe we can all do so is false news. Incidentally hasn't GD got himself a set of 1/4 choke barrels for this very reason ? 

 

[Will Hewland]

Chokes have a certain physical effect of course. They may have a huge mental effect for some; either positively or negatively. Some focus better for changing them. I find them an annoying distraction and my head is full of different visualised pattern sizes if I change them at a shoot. I once found a cartridge that spread wider than a £50.. no I won't use that vulgar analogy, but you get the idea. But I used to miss close stuff with them as I assumed the big pattern would do the work and I got sloppy.

I was told by a top shot that he saw GD miss some simple stuff with his open choke barrels and rejected them. Same head problem as I suffer I am told.

 

[AW13]

Oh... shame, that made sense to me... desperately need to set up a pattern plate to see how this stuff really works.  I have only patterned the tighter chokes to measure poi and noticed that there was little difference from 5/8 onwards.

I would like to see the results of the tests. Appreciate they would be specific to your gun, chokes and cartridge choice.

 

[ChrisPackham]

I would like to see the results of the tests. Appreciate they would be specific to your gun, chokes and cartridge choice.

Ok, will have to wait for the weather to improve based on today's effort!

 

[Cosmicblue]

The choke thing and how we perceive the effect of the constriction as shooters is the bit that plays with our heads - or mine at least................

When we pattern a cart we only see the spread of the shot at a given range but what we don't see is the length of the shot string - there is a time interval between the 1st pellets of the string arriving at the plate and the last ones getting there.  The tighter the choke the longer the shot string is....

So tight chokes on a close in target, less spread of the shot but if we hit the clay then the density of pattern and length of the string dusts it - something we have all seen.   The looser chokes provide a wider spread and a shorter shot string.... and this is the point where the head-game kicks in because the longer shot string could increase the probability of a kill (it certainly does at more distant targets).  Whereas the more open chokes have a wider spread/shorter string - might be better/might not have the lead in the right place at exactly the right time...

 

[Will Hewland]

The choke thing and how we perceive the effect of the constriction as shooters is the bit that plays with our heads - or mine at least................

When we pattern a cart we only see the spread of the shot at a given range but what we don't see is the length of the shot string - there is a time interval between the 1st pellets of the string arriving at the plate and the last ones getting there.  The tighter the choke the longer the shot string is....

So tight chokes on a close in target, less spread of the shot but if we hit the clay then the density of pattern and length of the string dusts it - something we have all seen.   The looser chokes provide a wider spread and a shorter shot string.... and this is the point where the head-game kicks in because the longer shot string could increase the probability of a kill (it certainly does at more distant targets).  Whereas the more open chokes have a wider spread/shorter string - might be better/might not have the lead in the right place at exactly the right time...

With respect, shot strings don't exist in usable reality. The speed of a shot string is so fast, that the whole "train" passes the clay in milliseconds. A fast crossing clay will move an inch or two max, while the string passes. The flat print you see on a pattern plate is the characteristic you also get on a clay.

 

[balltrap]

With respect, shot strings don't exist in usable reality. The speed of a shot string is so fast, that the whole "train" passes the clay in milliseconds. A fast crossing clay will move a few an inch or two max, while the string passes. The flat print you see on a pattern plate is the characteristic you also get on a clay.




 

I was waiting for that reply it did not take long :lol:

 

[Will Hewland]

I was waiting for that reply it did not take long :lol:

But it did make me get my calculator out again. Even a 40mph crosser (which is unusually fast) would only move 5 inches as a 900mph 10' shot string passed it. And downrange, shot speed is more like 650mph..

 

[ips]

however usable or not the shot string is and how ever short or long and however few milliseconds it takes to pass I would still rather miss ever so slightly in front, just in case ?

 

[balltrap]

however usable or not the shot string is and how ever short or long and however few milliseconds it takes to pass I would still rather miss ever so slightly in front, just in case ?




 

:angel: you miss all over the place :lol: