HSE publish proposal to ban all lead shot

[SBL]

I'm not sure there is an EU wide rule for lead shot, the only thing I can find is that lead is banned in and around wetlands. This is only as of 2023 though.

We've had similar no lead around wetlands for a significant length of time. Wildfowlers have been shooting steel for many years.

Yes, this is all I can find too.
I'm not defending the HSE, I enjoy shooting but don't really feel so drawn in to the argument for and against the ban.
Genuine question, will steel really be so terrible? I understand it's a change and people generally don't like change but will it really make so much of a difference?

 

[eightlittlebits]

I understand it's a change and people generally don't like change but will it really make so much of a difference?

Probably not, as you say it's resistance to change. Realistically any cartridge can likely outshoot the vast majority of people shooting and the difference is in their heads.

Some disciplines will be more affected than others, practical shotgun for example will need to make bigger changes to reduce ricochet risks.

The biggest impact may well be costs, if cartridges jump from £270-300/thou to £400+/thou (currently available steel as an example) then it'll likely have a huge impact on uptake as well as people exiting the sport.

Beyond that I don't really know, I'm new to this myself, only just over 1000 cartridges in and certificate since October!

 

[TRINITY]

Steel £400 per 1000 is just scare mongering. Gamebore super steel is around £250 per 1000 so I am sure the manufactures can supply steel around the same place as low/mid range clay cartridges. HOWEVER ! thats if they want to, my fear is greed will kick in and they will just see this as a profit opportunity.

 

[eightlittlebits]

Gamebore super steel is around £250 per 1000 so I am sure the manufactures can supply steel around the same place as low/mid range clay cartridges.

They also appear to only be available with plastic wads. Nearly all of the grounds near me are fibre only, I cant see them suddenly allowing plastic so you're back to expensive "bio-wads" again.

So yes, there is a cheaper steel cartridge, unfortunately one that's not usable on a lot of grounds.

 

[TRINITY]

They also appear to only be available with plastic wads. Nearly all of the grounds near me are fibre only, I cant see them suddenly allowing plastic so you're back to expensive "bio-wads" again.

So yes, there is a cheaper steel cartridge, unfortunately one that's not usable on a lot of grounds.

All the big grounds in Yorkshire are plastic allowed with the exception of Thimbleby. Yes the small Sunday morning shoots and casual straw bail shoots will suffer but as long as the professional grounds can remain viable, the sport will adapt and cope.

 

[eightlittlebits]

All the big grounds in Yorkshire are plastic allowed with the exception of Thimbleby. Yes the small Sunday morning shoots and casual straw bail shoots will suffer but as long as the professional grounds can remain viable, the sport will adapt and cope.

Definitely different to down south then, it's much more unusual to find those that allow plastic. About the only one off the top of my head (I believe) is Owls Lodge owned by Richard Faulds. I'm not sure you can call Bisley Shooting Ground a Sunday morning or casual shoot, it's fibre only.

 

[TRINITY]

Definitely different to down south then, it's much more unusual to find those that allow plastic. About the only one off the top of my head (I believe) is Owls Lodge owned by Richard Faulds. I'm not sure you can call Bisley Shooting Ground a Sunday morning or casual shoot, it's fibre only.

Thimbleby is not a small ground, it operates six days a week. However ,like others have said this report is all about lead and ignores the damage of plastic. If plastic wads are available and cartridges using them are cheaper, then I think grounds allowing their use will have a considerable commercial advantage. It will be interesting to see if a ground sticks to its fibre only policy if it starts losing custom as people move to nearby grounds to shoot cheaper plastic loads. I have a feeling once grounds start losing money due to their environmental concerns or plastic, commercial reality may alter their views

 

[eightlittlebits]

If plastic wads are available and cartridges using them are cheaper, then I think grounds allowing their use will have a considerable commercial advantage. It will be interesting to see if a ground sticks to its fibre only policy if it starts losing custom as people move to nearby grounds to shoot cheaper plastic loads. I have a feeling once grounds start losing money due to their environmental concerns or plastic, commercial reality may alter their views.

Will be interested to see if/how they do adapt. Being new to this and located down here I've never actually shot anything other than a fibre cartridge.

 

[SBL]

Why are we assuming that fibre is going to add so much money to the overall price?
When I look in the local places that sell a cartridge in both formats, there's generally only a couple of £ difference for a slab.
Just checked and first I came to was Superfast, £8 per 1000 more for fibre.

 

[eightlittlebits]

Why are we assuming that fibre is going to add so much money to the overall price?
When I look in the local places that sell a cartridge in both formats, there's generally only a couple of £ difference for a slab.
Just checked and first I came to was Superfast, £8 per 1000 more for fibre.

We're not.

A fibre wad sites behind the shot and the shot is "loose" in front of it within the barrel. A plastic wad contains the shot in a cup as it goes down the barrel. For lead the barrels are harder than the shot so there's no issue, if steel shot is the same or similar hardness the risk is you score the barrels as the shot is forced down the forcing cones/barrels.

If grounds do not allow plastic they need an alternative wad which seem to be the "bio-degradable" wads which are all much more expensive than fibre or plastic.

 

[FESkent]

Steel shot also has a pressure peak going through the choke as it does not yield like lead. Hence the limitations on choke restriction for steel shot.

 

[Richard59]

One would like to think that with the loss of lead shot and quite possibly plastic wads that the manufacturers will upscale development & production of alternatives that will not see such a marked cost difference between the price of existing plastic wad lead and the non-plastic wadded steel cartridges marketed at present. Well I have hope.

 

[Clynt]

Often wondered if long term tests have been ran on gun barrels using Steel shot (is it not dull un polished iron actually and will rust due to any ingress of moisture or condensation ) and on the environment its shot into ??? if ,as many grounds have enforced fibre wadd how does this work with iron shot ??? will Bio wadds become another requirement ??? were the HSE the correct purveyors to do any relevant testing ?? all seems odd to me and Ive yet to be convinced with lead pollution as its naturally in our surroundings ?

 

[MartynB]

The HSE are the enforcing agency for REACH (Registration, Evaluation, Authorisation and Restriction of Chemicals) in the U.K. . Unlike the wider chemical industry though which has trade bodies such as CEFIC there is no specific single body or trade association for shooting that has enough clout to lobby . The other thing consider is that a lot of lead shot is alloyed with antimony . Lead and Antimony have been on the HSE radar in other industries for decades.

 

[FESkent]

but apparently if the lead shot leaves an olympic competitor gun it is non toxic, landing on likely the same ground the rest of of us must use non toxic shot on. All getting very silly.

 

[PeeJay]

but apparently if the lead shot leaves an olympic competitor gun it is non toxic, landing on likely the same ground the rest of of us must use non toxic shot on. All getting very silly.

It’s all about the risk/likelihood calculation.

They were lobbied and told how a complete ban would adversely affect Olympic competitors etc putting them at a serious disadvantage.

So they clearly reasoned that the compromise was banning the hundreds of thousands of hobbyists (my word), while allowing the few to still compete. To be fair it does seem a reasonable compromise.

 

[PeeJay]

Often wondered if long term tests have been ran on gun barrels using Steel shot (is it not dull un polished iron actually and will rust due to any ingress of moisture or condensation ) and on the environment its shot into ??? if ,as many grounds have enforced fibre wadd how does this work with iron shot ??? will Bio wadds become another requirement ??? were the HSE the correct purveyors to do any relevant testing ?? all seems odd to me and Ive yet to be convinced with lead pollution as its naturally in our surroundings ?

As far as I understood it, it’s definitely steel not iron. They are different, with different compositions and properties. I’m ready to be corrected if anyone knows for certain that it’s iron, but I would be very surprised.

Although lead is already present in the environment, it is nowhere near the quantities, accessibility and potential for harm as lead shot. There really is no comparison.

 

[Clynt]

As far as I understood it, it’s definitely steel not iron. They are different, with different compositions and properties. I’m ready to be corrected if anyone knows for certain that it’s iron, but I would be very surprised.

Although lead is already present in the environment, it is nowhere near the quantities, accessibility and potential for harm as lead shot. There really is no comparison.

Steel would still rust due its make up surely

 

[PeeJay]

Steel would still rust due its make up surely

Yes, although at a different rate depending on its composition. I wasn’t particularly commenting on the rust aspect, more that it’s a different material so will act/react differently. The shot won’t be iron.

 

[Robden]

What is the difference between long term lead pollution and rust pollution, I can't find anything about it?
Are we better off ingesting lead or steel in our game birds?