Instruction and Coaching Costs

[Lord v]

This is more thinking out loud than anything and don't really want to start any bun fights... I have paid about £100 (depends on the amount of clays and cartridges) per lesson so far. Of that the instructors time makes up £50, the rest in clays and cartridges. All 1-1, includes use of gun, get through about 100 cartridges a lesson, sometimes more or less - depends how its going. Now I don't feel ripped off at all given the quality of the instruction and the improvement it has made to my shooting. If anything I think the instructor should probably charge more (although for christsakes don't tell her that).

I have just read a thread on PW where someone was looking at lessons at £35 for 1-1 for 50 clays. Another venue nearby was charging £65 for the same.

I guess my question is how is there such a huge disparity? Given that most grounds charge 20-30p a clay and a box of 25 is £5 that barely leave £15 for the instruction at the first place. Is it just me or would you be worried at the quality of instruction that cheap? or am I just a snob?

 

[Will Hewland]

Define "instruction". It's very different getting a group to get comfortably through a have a go session (where £15 an hour is probably able to buy what you need.. just..) than it is trying to get an A class shooter to put another 5 clays on their average. That instructor will have a huge amount of experience which he or she won't want to give away for lunch money..

 

[Lord v]

Define "instruction". It's very different getting a group to get comfortably through a have a go session (where £15 an hour is probably able to buy what you need.. just..) than it is trying to get an A class shooter to put another 5 clays on their average. That instructor will have a huge amount of experience which he or she won't want to give away for lunch money..

I guess that was the point I was getting at - all depends what you want out of it I suppose. Personally I would be pretty sceptical of the quality of training at the cheap as chips price point.

 

[Sian]

I guess that was the point I was getting at - all depends what you want out of it I suppose. Personally I would be pretty sceptical of the quality of training at the cheap as chips price point.

Big grounds can sometimes subsidise what they charge for instruction, have a goes etc whereas individuals may not.   Some people can charge what people will pay for them as they are seen to be the holy grail that will get the shooter to where they want to be and then every so often you get an absolute diamond whose costs are very reasonable but they are excellent and love what they do.

 

[Hamster]

It's a minefield, all depends on your experience level and what you expect out of it. I personally don't think even £35 is good value for a beginner because apart from the safety aspect and being taught the drill so to speak, he/she could learn just as much in the first few weeks by just shooting, it is rare for the inexperienced to be able to listen correctly never mind apply what they learn. 

Once you reach a certain acceptable level but seemingly hit a wall then it's time to seek help and at that stage you have to expect to cough up and you will as they say get a monkey if you pay peanuts. 

A friend of mine has done the rounds paying just under to over a hundred per hour to famous names and paid a good bit less to Becky Mckenzie whom he also found to be very good, they all broadly speaking told him what I've been telling him for a few years, there's not that much wrong with his shooting, his flaws lie in refusing to learn every technique and insisting on spot shooting everything, this can look awesome and be very effective but it isn't enough, oh and he also needs to slow the hell down. 

 

[Will Hewland]

It's a minefield, all depends on your experience level and what you expect out of it. I personally don't think even £35 is good value for a beginner because apart from the safety aspect and being taught the drill so to speak, he/she could learn just as much in the first few weeks by just shooting, it is rare for the inexperienced to be able to listen correctly never mind apply what they learn. 

Once you reach a certain acceptable level but seemingly hit a wall then it's time to seek help and at that stage you have to expect to cough up and you will as they say get a monkey if you pay peanuts. 

A friend of mine has done the rounds paying just under to over a hundred per hour to famous names and paid a good bit less to Becky Mckenzie whom he also found to be very good, they all broadly speaking told him what I've been telling him for a few years, there's not that much wrong with his shooting, his flaws lie in refusing to learn every technique and insisting on spot shooting everything, this can look awesome and be very effective but it isn't enough, oh and he also needs to slow the hell down. 

Yes, with what little coaching I have done (usually to B class and below) I really try to get them to understand WHY they have hit it and HOW to do it 5 times in a row reliably. High speed (where you can't accurately see your actions) is rarely helpful to either of these. 3 heroic kills and two losses is only 60%..

 

[Lord v]

It's a minefield, all depends on your experience level and what you expect out of it. I personally don't think even £35 is good value for a beginner because apart from the safety aspect and being taught the drill so to speak, he/she could learn just as much in the first few weeks by just shooting, it is rare for the inexperienced to be able to listen correctly never mind apply what they learn. 

Once you reach a certain acceptable level but seemingly hit a wall then it's time to seek help and at that stage you have to expect to cough up and you will as they say get a monkey if you pay peanuts. 

A friend of mine has done the rounds paying just under to over a hundred per hour to famous names and paid a good bit less to Becky Mckenzie whom he also found to be very good, they all broadly speaking told him what I've been telling him for a few years, there's not that much wrong with his shooting, his flaws lie in refusing to learn every technique and insisting on spot shooting everything, this can look awesome and be very effective but it isn't enough, oh and he also needs to slow the hell down. 

Sometimes its the way the teaching is done. Also, with the example of your friend; because he was your mate his mind probably wasn't massively receptive to your tips, no matter how right or well packaged they were.

There is a definite difference between the training a complete newbie needs and a more seasoned participant needs. There is a need at a more advanced level to be able to communicate effectively with a trainer. That may entail trying few out to have the same information packaged a slightly different way.  However as a complete beginner how can you be sure that the instruction receive is any good? communication style is no less important at that stage than the latter but lets face it - you may not know what style of coaching you respond to and you are probably going to go cheap... added to that its comparatively easy to learn something but harder to un-learn then relearn if the initial instruction is rubbish. A fact a newbie may not discover for years. All these points may leave you with a whole host of issues which may have easily been avoided.     

I'm not sure I can agree with the bit in bold. IMO that's down to the attitude of the person being taught, inexperience has very little to do with it. In fact I would argue that the more experienced a person is the potential for them not listening raises! (the example of your friend a case in point) Not matter how much I'm paying for training - I want my moneys worth so I will make damn sure I listen. There is always something to learn.  

I'm not sure there is an answer as such to some of these points but its certainly interesting.    

 

[Hamster]

Sometimes its the way the teaching is done. Also, with the example of your friend; because he was your mate his mind probably wasn't massively receptive to your tips, no matter how right or well packaged they were.

There is a definite difference between the training a complete newbie needs and a more seasoned participant needs. There is a need at a more advanced level to be able to communicate effectively with a trainer. That may entail trying few out to have the same information packaged a slightly different way.  However as a complete beginner how can you be sure that the instruction receive is any good? communication style is no less important at that stage than the latter but lets face it - you may not know what style of coaching you respond to and you are probably going to go cheap... added to that its comparatively easy to learn something but harder to un-learn then relearn if the initial instruction is rubbish. A fact a newbie may not discover for years. All these points may leave you with a whole host of issues which may have easily been avoided.     

I'm not sure I can agree with the bit in bold. IMO that's down to the attitude of the person being taught, inexperience has very little to do with it. In fact I would argue that the more experienced a person is the potential for them not listening raises! (the example of your friend a case in point) Not matter how much I'm paying for training - I want my moneys worth so I will make damn sure I listen. There is always something to learn.  

I'm not sure there is an answer as such to some of these points but its certainly interesting.    

My mate is actually a very good shot (just  broken into AA in fact) but I have never actively coached him, my saying he tends to spot shoot is a throwaway remark as he leaves a stand and he knows it anyway. 

As for people not listening, I have definitely noticed this trait particularly amongst the really keen youngsters  , the less aggressive ones out to enjoy their day tend to listen and act on your advice, often with immediate results, the arrogant ones think they know better   or are so consumed with the need to hit the next one they literally forget to engage their brain and listen. 

 

[EdSolomons]

When you are starting out I would say cheaper the better. To begin with it is more safety and getting used to the moves. After that it can be worth spending a bit more to get someone to look at you in depth. 

Again really early doors I'd avoid the upper end cost wise, using the funds to build up experience. Further down the line is where I'd say is where you will get better value from more advanced coaching. You can expect to pay anywhere from £50-100 an hour plus clays and shells for most good coaches. Always go on recommendations (multiple) and results. The value  is to be determined by you.

ed

 

[westley]

I know a couple of Guys that decided to have an expensive (very) lesson with a certain journalistic Instructor, he did not charge 'Lunch Money' because they had to pay for that TOO  !  They were that disgusted they even stopped buying their wives 'HIS' perfume as well !           

 

[Darkside]

I know a couple of Guys that decided to have an expensive (very) lesson with a certain journalistic Instructor, he did not charge 'Lunch Money' because they had to pay for that TOO  !  They were that disgusted they even stopped buying their wives 'HIS' perfume as well !           

That fanny Yardley???

 

[westley]

Strange,  you called me that once too  

 

[bisondan]

I know a couple of Guys that decided to have an expensive (very) lesson with a certain journalistic Instructor, he did not charge 'Lunch Money' because they had to pay for that TOO  !  They were that disgusted they even stopped buying their wives 'HIS' perfume as well !           

Best bit about seeing my coach is the chilli, rice, and cheese at the end ?

 

[Darkside]

Strange,  you called me that once too  

Westley, Yardley is a grade A fanny, out and out hypocrite, sh*te stirring narcissist!!!

...your an ok guy

 

[westley]

Westley, Yardley is a grade A fanny, out and out hypocrite, sh*te stirring narcissist!!!

...your an ok guy

:wub: :wub: :wub: :wub:

The Guy's that I know spoke highly of him too !

 

[Brand New]

Just had a coaching session today,I wont name who with. Those who have read my posts will know that I am novice at best. Session was based around driven pheasant as that is what I will be shooting at for the rest of the month. Instructor said all the basics were there and the easy overhead target was no problem. But as we moved to the higher ,faster targets there were a couple of faults in my technique that were going to cost me hits. One hundreds shots and £80 gone up in smoke. Do I think I learnt anything? Yes I did. Hit a good percentage of the high ones too.

    But when the game season is over and I want to concentrate on clays,then I will probably need a new coach.

 

[chippy]

Iam thinking of packing in the coaching that I've been having ,its cost me over £25,000 the past year with very little improvement. The coach said I should think of any circular item I see as a clay and imagine smashing it. 

That's three cars written off on the same roundabout.

 

[Rupert]

Is 25k a typo?

 

[perazman]

I think it was an attempt at humour! (Three cars written off)

The comments made regarding the "Journalist" instructor may well be unwise given what happened on Pigeon Watch. Try typing his name there?!! Guess it's for admin to decide.