Introduction and gun fit question

[bordergun]

So do I Ben, but in my case it's 50 years, not 20.

 

[k80ben]

So do I Ben, but in my case it's 50 years, not 20.

Please list the number of world, European and national championships you have to your name sir in those 50 years.

Michel manjot
Christophe Auvert
Charles Bardou
Alessandro gaitano
Damien Birgan

what system do these guys shoot and is it the same as 5 years ago?

 

[bordergun]

Ben. I'm sure you are a fabulous coach but with the utmost respect, I think you are comparing apples to oranges here. Regardless of the "system" they shoot, they ALL need to know how much lead the target needs to intercept it because if they don't, they absolutely will miss. And it doesn't matter if it's a clay target or a driven partridge.

All accomplished shots use the same method, I call it TLAR. It's the "That Looks About Right" to me shooting method. There are only two books available that decipher the variables of targets, the Unit Lead system and Reading Targets. By reading them, shooters will have a logical way (based on trigonometry and ballistics) to break every target on a skeet, trap, and SC course. And of course their bird hunting skills will improve.

And before you decide that I am saying this to sell more books, please bear in mind that after printing, editing and publishing, I make absolute peanuts, about $3.00 per book. I will make even less when the PDF e books are available. But I do like to help shooters cut through the hype and long periods of taking lessons because of what some coaches tell them ie. "focus on the leading edge of the target and the magic of your subconscious will tell you where to put the gun" Because it won't.

 

[k80ben]

Ben. I'm sure you are a fabulous coach but with the utmost respect, I think you are comparing apples to oranges here. Regardless of the "system" they shoot, they ALL need to know how much lead the target needs to intercept it because if they don't, they absolutely will miss. And it doesn't matter if it's a clay target or a driven partridge.

All accomplished shots use the same method, I call it TLAR. It's the "That Looks About Right" to me shooting method. There are only two books available that decipher the variables of targets, the Unit Lead system and Reading Targets. By reading them, shooters will have a logical way (based on trigonometry and ballistics) to break every target on a skeet, trap, and SC course. And of course their bird hunting skills will improve.

And before you decide that I am saying this to sell more books, please bear in mind that after printing, editing and publishing, I make absolute peanuts, about $3.00 per book. I will make even less when the PDF e books are available. But I do like to help shooters cut through the hype and long periods of taking lessons because of what some coaches tell them ie. "focus on the leading edge of the target and the magic of your subconscious will tell you where to put the gun" Because it won't.

I’m not accusing you of selling sir purely that you’re misguided in your information.

The sports moved on ten fold. And if your not in it now at the top end your dated and out of touch

I believe you mean well but a little knowledge is a dangerous thing

 

[bordergun]

I believe 60 years of shooting shotguns, professional coach in 27 countries, author of 5 how to shotgunning books (including a best seller), pro at one of the best facilities here in the US for 7 years would prove to most that I don't have "little knowledge" but I have another question if you don't mind? How do you teach your clients how much lead a target needs?

 

[k80ben]

I believe 60 years of shooting shotguns and my track record proves that I don't have "little knowledge" but I have another question if you don't mind? How do you teach your clients how much lead a target needs?

I refer back to your track record.. please post all your world, European and national titles you have won over your career. Then people will know what calibre of shooter they’re talking too?

 

[Big G]

I refer back to your track record.. please post all your world, European and national titles you have won over your career. Then people will know what calibre of shooter they’re talking too?

I refer back to your track record.. please post all your world, European and national titles you have won over your career. Then people will know what calibre of shooter they’re talking too?

Just give it both barrels Ben

 

[bordergun]

Ben. Surely that would prove I'm a good shot, not a good coach? I already know that you are a good shot and that's fabulous, well done Sir! And we already know your clients have no idea where their guns shoot but my question to you was simple. How do you teach them lead?

 

[k80ben]

Ben. Surely that would prove I'm a good shot, not a good coach? I already know that you are a good shot and that's fabulous, well done Sir! And we already know your clients have no idea where their guns shoot but my question to you was simple. How do you teach them lead?

Ben. Surely that would prove I'm a good shot, not a good coach? I already know that you are a good shot and that's fabulous, well done Sir! And we already know your clients have no idea where their guns shoot but my question to you was simple. How do you teach them lead?

So I’m right in saying you don’t know any of the champions I listed and your unwilling to post your major titles in the illustrious career.

And as stated in this game we love if your not a good shot your not a good coach

 

[vmax1010]

Hi Ben have you found those barrel weights in your shed yet? I'm after some CG ones if you've got some

 

[Luke_(NL)]

While I enjoy reading the back-and-forth, I'd prefer to see the proposed shooting match. No offense to Pete, but I'd be willing to stake Ben in the side bet. Others are welcome to chip in.

On the admittedly slim chance that you'll both visit the Netherlands simultaneously, I would also offer to host you both at JST Waalsdorp (near the Hague) so that neither of you has a home-field advantage.

If ever you needed an excuse to visit our beatiful country, this is it.

 

[Westward]

Just give it both barrels Ben

The jungle drums are saying that bordergun, under one or other of his usernames, holds the record for causing more threads on Shotgunworld to be locked than anyone else.

Probably helps book sales though.

 

[aynesie]

I wonder how many top champions have never had a lesson?

 

[bordergun]

Westward You are correct, it's no secret apart from the fact that my other "user name" is Pete Blakeley. But having said that I have lots of friends and very successful clients here in the US and I like to help shooters. That's why I posted the gunfit link, thats why I respond to their e mails and give them free advice when possible. But some don't like my advice because it conflicts with theirs as you can see......especially the length of time and number of lessons it takes to learn to read the variables of SC targets and how long it takes to becomes accomplished. Regardless of what you say about book sales, unlike some other coaches, the size of my wallet isn't always my motivation.

And as you know "jungle drums" say lots of things on here about others. But, despite my repeatedly asking Ben how he teaches his clients lead and why he says "pattern plates are useless" he refuses to answer. For such an accomplished shot and coach, I wonder why?

 

[bordergun]

Luke At 76 years old I'm sure you would be correct about the side bet but at least then you would all know if I can shoot or not? And did you find the advice, pictures etc that I e mailed you to be useful? Please let me know. BTW do you happen to know a shooter over there who posts as Pock65? If you do, please go to the trouble of asking him about the Unit Lead system. Thank you.

 

[k80ben]

Luke At 76 years old I'm sure you would be correct about the side bet but at least then you would all know if I can shoot or not? And did you find the advice, pictures etc that I e mailed you to be useful? Please let me know. BTW do you happen to know a shooter over there who posts as Pock65? If you do, please go to the trouble of asking him about the Unit Lead system. Thank you.

Happy to answer

After my question of what have u won and what methods do those champions shoot because u claimed to know.

Being pretty much the most successful coach out there I would say my coaching of lead is ok

 

[ColinD]

Out of interest Ben, what champions have you coached on their way to the top
Thanks

 

[bordergun]

Ben Thanks for your explanation about teaching your students lead, I think I understand now. It sounds similar to the explanation some coaches use here in the US.
student question:- "How much lead do you see coach?"
coach answer:- "I don't know, I was looking AT the target."

 

[k80ben]

Out of interest Ben, what champions have you coached on their way to the top
Thanks

I have now I think 19/20 world tiles

6/7 European titles

And above 35 national champions in my clients

 

[bordergun]

Ben. That's great!! Well done Sir! I congratulate you! I definitely don't have that many. But for someone who as you say "can't shoot", I would think that any World Champions would be remarkable achievement don't you think?
But, again, I really would appreciate some input of how do you teach them lead? Perhaps it's a secret that you prefer not to divulge? Or do they figure it out for themselves?