Introduction and gun fit question

[k80ben]

Out of interest Ben, what champions have you coached on their way to the top
Thanks

Pete if your understanding was as good as u claim u would be able to hit some.

I’ve made 3 calls to the USA today to pretty much the best 3 shots in the country and all of them said nice enough guy useless coach. I’ve not seen you coach to comment but reading your posts I can say what your teaching is wrong I just can’t comment on how well you teach it

You rattle on about the lead but the lead is controlled by the method. Change the method or hold point you change the lead

Put the foundations in before building the house

 

[bordergun]

Ben. I understand. But if what you say is correct, why do some of the top coaches over here now advise seeing lead at the muzzle instead of out there at the target? Unless of course it works and (for financial reasons) some don't want you to know that it does? A few weeks of lessons instead of in some cases years to get to the top? And if it really doesn't work, why do I give a money back guarantee on lessons and these days I train more coaches eager learn the system? Please continue digging, you will find out that I'm right. You can start with the actual e mail on my web. site in the testimonial section from Craig Cain who now shoots on the US team. Then you can read the actual letter from Mark L Kiddie (since passed away) "Congratulations on writing the definitive book on target leads." And why would Clayshooting USA agree to provide all the diagrams for the book if it was useless?

When it was first published the reviews were very good, please read them yourself on Amazon. Then, slowly but surely, some coaches realized that I was onto something and eventually, the speed with which the shooters were learning was affecting their wallets, so they began dismissing the logic. And it IS logic. All the figures to back up what I say are in there.

When someone comes up with something completely new in the shooting World most initially view it with suspicion. Then when they find out that it actually works they prefer to keep it a secret. Points make prizes after all.

 

[k80ben]

Ben. I understand. But if what you say is correct, why do some of the top coaches over here now advise seeing lead at the muzzle instead of out there at the target? Unless of course it works and (for financial reasons) some don't want you to know that it does? A few weeks of lessons instead of in some cases years to get to the top? And if it really doesn't work, why do I give a money back guarantee on lessons and these days I train more coaches eager learn the system? Please continue digging, you will find out that I'm right. You can start with the actual e mail on my web. site in the testimonial section from Craig Cain who now shoots on the US team. Then you can read the actual letter from Mark L Kiddie (since passed away) "Congratulations on writing the definitive book on target leads." And why would Clayshooting USA agree to provide all the diagrams for the book if it was useless?

When it was first published the reviews were very good, please read them yourself on Amazon. Then, slowly but surely, some coaches realized that I was onto something and eventually, the speed with which the shooters were learning was affecting their wallets, so they began dismissing the logic. And it IS logic. All the figures to back up what I say are in there.

When someone comes up with something completely new in the shooting World most initially view it with suspicion. Then when they find out that it actually works they prefer to keep it a secret. Points make prizes after all.

What you’re preaching isn’t new it’s dated. Clay shooting magazine was owned by my best friend and they publish anything and help anyone not down to its relevance.

The list of students on your site is a mix of nobodies and better nobodies.

This isn’t a go at you, this is a UK site and I’ll speak out when nonsense is wrote and what your saying is proven to be wrong by the fact that your shooting has always at best been mediocre

Ayrton Senna one hell of a driver (not mediocre) wouldn’t know how to start a current F1 car let alone drive it.

Your prime has been passed and when you were in it you couldn’t hold your own then. Please stick to beginners and corporate entertainment let the professionals help those with aspirations to be good

 

[wynno]

Can you stop for 10 minutes gents, I’ve got to get some more popcorn

 

[bordergun]

Of course Ben. I'm a pathological liar and I made all my coaching experiences over the last 45 years up to sell books. It's just a disturbing fact that these days the World seems to be full of liars..........isn't it?

 

[k80ben]

Of course Ben. I'm a pathological liar and I made all my coaching experiences over the last 45 years up to sell books. It's just a disturbing fact that these days the World seems to be full of liars..........isn't it?

No I truly believe you believe you help and are correct this is normal. Beginners may by into it and then they move on to the professionals who can actually do it as well as teach it.

I knew mark kiddie well, shot with him a few times too

Having spoke to the top USA shooters why don’t they back your claims up

 

[bordergun]

Perhaps it's a secret? Why don't you read Bobby Fowlers Elite Shooting School press room advice on long crossers? And I guess I had better inform my US team clients that you consider them to be "nobodies."

 

[k80ben]

Perhaps it's a secret? Why don't you read Bobby Fowlers Elite Shooting School press room advice on long crossers? And I guess I had better inform my US team clients that you consider them to be "nobodies."

Was it team USA first team or one of the lowly ranked teams (I know the answer)

Also shot with Bobby many many times

 

[bordergun]

Sorry Ben, I can't tell you that. But you know the answer so not much point in a pathological liar trying to convice you otherwise is there? But here's a strange thing (and I'm sure you will look this up) the UL book is $34.95 from Amazon. The same book is $14.95 from my web. site. But most will buy from Amazon. Why? because direct from my site it requires an e mail address and most shooters prefer not to be reconized. B/S? no. I'm afraid not. Take a look. As I say, top secret. It has now sold many thousands of copies Worldwide. Ooooopp's there I go, perhaps I'm lying again..........................

Sorry, almost forgot. I was the manager of Westside in Houston for a year and a half where Bobby and his friends shot. Please ask Bobby where he got the "lead at the muzzles" from. Oooooops, there I go lying again..............

 

[k80ben]

Sorry Ben, I can't tell you that. But you know the answer so not much point in a pathological liar trying to convice you otherwise is there? But here's a strange thing (and I'm sure you will look this up) the UL book is $34.95 from Amazon. The same book is $14.95 from my web. site. But most will buy from Amazon. Why? because direct from my site it requires an e mail address and most shooters prefer not to be reconized. B/S? no. I'm afraid not. Take a look. As I say, top secret. It has now sold many thousands of copies Worldwide. Ooooopp's there I go, perhaps I'm lying again..........................

Sorry, almost forgot. I was the manager of Westside in Houston for a year and a half where Bobby and his friends shot. Please ask Bobby where he got the "lead at the muzzles" from. Oooooops, there I go lying again..............

Yeah I worked out of west side as well,

Seems u can’t answer any questions only refer to a book that is useless yet keep bringing it up

 

[jonz]

Ben, I’ve been following this thread with interest as have many others. In general I think you make some very valid points however can you please explain how the sport has changed, Your comment about Senna not being able to start a modern F1 car doesn’t really compare to putting a cartridge in a shotgun and pulling the trigger.
Thanks
Jonz

 

[k80ben]

Ben, I’ve been following this thread with interest as have many others. In general I think you make some very valid points however can you please explain how the sport has changed, Your comment about Senna not being able to start a modern F1 car doesn’t really compare to putting a cartridge in a shotgun and pulling the trigger.
Thanks
Jonz

Traps have changed tremendously, both in speed and trajectory. The angle a trap can sit at now is insane….. 1997 world championships were predominantly manual. Grounds are now able to put the traps in places before would have been impossible. (Helicoptered some in this year)

Gun fit has been dramatically updated and the methods used in the past don’t work now.

So a lot has changed

 

[Mike]

Can you explain why gun fit has changed, because if it does'nt shoot where you look you're not going to hit much.

If you shoot where the target is going works, well for me.

Guns are still the same as they were years ago, so what has changed?

 

[k80ben]

Can you explain why gun fit has changed, because if it does'nt shoot where you look you're not going to hit much.

If you shoot where the target is going works, well for me.

Guns are still the same as they were years ago, so what has changed?

Not at all people shot flat shooting guns now 70/30 is normal and before no one looked at the gun now looking at the barrel is imperative

 

[Mike]

Yes, I agree with that and I do look at where my barrel is, it makes it easier for me.

I just have a small bead on my gun though.

 

[bordergun]

And yet Ben, due to something called parallax, target speed has the least impact on a successful shot and in any case, by seeing lead at the muzzle target speed is completely INCONSEQUENTIAL on ALL the angular shots. Angle and perceived lead is what matters. And BTW every target (In the area you intend to shoot it) is either rising or falling. it is a narrow angle, intermediate angle wide angle or full crosser. Just like it was 200 years ago.

And BTW here is something that expect you will find very interesting. For those over there that have my book Successful Shotgunning on page 206 I say "on page 50 in the December issue of Sporting Clays magazine there is an article by Nick Siseley, Stellar Star of the game about Jon Kruger who at that time was the US Champion". Quote from the article "You've heard the axiom over and over, look at the target, look at the target. Surprisingly, this isn't what Kruger does. Instead he tries to look at a spot in front of the target. Why? Because that's where his shot needs to go."

In other words EXACTLY what Richard Faulds says he does and ALL my clients and many of the Masterclass and World Champions have found out. And IF THEY KNOW THE LEAD it is very, very easy to do.

But when I first came here to the US, some coaches were preaching the familiar "Focus on the target so intently that you can see the rings on the top, direction of spin etc" and "The magic of your subconscious will tell you where to put the gun." They said that because most of them could not explain lead in a logical way. These same coaches would then tell you "You gun should shoot where you look." So, if your gun "shoots where you look" and you are still focused on the target on a 40 yard crossing shot, won't your shot column go 10 feet behind the target? Of course it will. But the look in front is only for the smallest fraction of time 1/50 th of a second, and only when your target reading skills is up to standard.

Mike says it here:- "Shooting where the target is going works for me." Yes, Mike I agree 100% and Fauldsey, Jon Kruger, George Digweed and many, many more. Its just a pity they didn't listen 20 years ago when I wrote the book.

 

[k80ben]

And yet Ben, due to something called parallax, target speed has the least impact on a successful shot and in any case, by seeing lead at the muzzle target speed is completely INCONSEQUENTIAL on ALL the angular shots. Angle and perceived lead is what matters. And BTW every target (In the area you intend to shoot it) is either rising or falling. it is a narrow angle, intermediate angle wide angle or full crosser. Just like it was 200 years ago.

And BTW here is something that expect you will find very interesting. For those over there that have my book Successful Shotgunning on page 206 I say "on page 50 in the December issue of Sporting Clays magazine there is an article by Nick Siseley, Stellar Star of the game about Jon Kruger who at that time was the US Champion". Quote from the article "You've heard the axiom over and over, look at the target, look at the target. Surprisingly, this isn't what Kruger does. Instead he tries to look at a spot in front of the target. Why? Because that's where his shot needs to go."

In other words EXACTLY what Richard Faulds says he does and ALL my clients and many of the Masterclass and World Champions have found out. And IF THEY KNOW THE LEAD it is very, very easy to do.

But when I first came here to the US, some coaches were preaching the familiar "Focus on the target so intently that you can see the rings on the top, direction of spin etc" and "The magic of your subconscious will tell you where to put the gun." They said that because most of them could not explain lead in a logical way. These same coaches would then tell you "You gun should shoot where you look." So, if your gun "shoots where you look" and you are still focused on the target on a 40 yard crossing shot, won't your shot column go 10 feet behind the target? Of course it will. But the look in front is only for the smallest fraction of time 1/50 th of a second, and only when your target reading skills is up to standard.

Now I know you know nothing about the sport at all. And Richard actually speaks the exact opposite. Remember I used to shoot with him. I also know Jon Kruger extremely well.

So more fiction please call it a night as it’s not even difficult now.

I have clients all over the world and I know every top shot. If I brought your name up apart from the USA shooters who find what you teach to be nonsense no one would know who you are

 

[bordergun]

Ben. What Richard Faulds says is quote:- "I instantly look with my eyes straight to the visual lead that I believe the target needs" Please read the post that Paul b put on the other thread. And on another thread, Richards advice for long crossers is "look in front of the target to the visual lead you need", need more lead? Look further in front." In other words, if his gun fits, it will shoot WHERE HE LOOKS. It isn't rocket science, but deciphering the variables of lead is difficult for many.

Are you suggesting that Richard and Jon Kruger are telling porkies? And as I keep telling you, if you are in this area, even at my age, if I'm available, I will be happy to shoot a round of SC with you. You will see then if I can shoot or not. Thank you.

 

[k80ben]

Ben. What Richard Faulds says is quote:- "I instantly look with my eyes straight to the visual lead that I believe the target needs" Please read the post that Paul b put on the other thread. And on another thread, Richards advice for long crossers is "look in front of the target to the visual lead you need", need more lead? Look further in front." In other words, if his gun fits, it will shoot WHERE HE LOOKS. It isn't rocket science, but deciphering the variables of lead is difficult for many.

Are you suggesting that Richard and Jon Kruger are lying?

I’m suggesting you’re reading the internet - I know them as people. As you well know you can write anything on the internet it doesn’t make it true

U say you know these guys but they don’t know you. If your way worked you would hit them and you don’t what’s the reason for your system not working on yourself

 

[bordergun]

Wrong again I'm afraid. I have done clinics with George D at the Dallas Gun club, I did a three year contract with the Olympic shooters and I know every Olympic coach. Lots of genuine pictures on my web. site here www.peteblakeley.com please click on Bio and Olympic photo gallery. And I do know most of the coaches in the UK. Re. my shotgun skills, please read my post above. I don't think I can make it any clearer?