New UT format

[andypandy]

Is there any video's of the new format in action?

 

[40UP]

Yes, I do with respect to item 8.

Trap 300 is a bastardised version of ABT, altered from the CPSA rules by Peter Croft.  It was demonstrated in Italy this last weekend when they'd finished playing with the UT snake. They shot 30 targets, whether they just did or a round has changed from 25 to 30 I don't know.  The targets are set 45 degrees left and right, with the height being between 1.5m and 3.5m. Target distance is 65m. As you already know 28gm cartridges with 2.5mm being the max shot size.

I thought 45 degrees and 3.5m we had just abandoned because at some grounds they "hit the roof"

 

[ips]

I am fed up with the constant changes.

furthermore how many trap disciplines do we need ?

DTL

ABT (propper old school not the current one)

OT

cant see any need for any others and that Imo includes UT. Why bother with UT either shoot ABT or OT !!!! As for all these new fangled proposal well there just sport trap in disguise.

 

[Dog Tyred]

Oye! What's wrong with UT? At least its regulated targets while the shooters are a little less 'focussed' than the OT lot.

Don't see any problem with multiple trap disciplines (apparently choice its what the shooter wants...allegedly?). I just wish they would stop f*cking around with the existing ones!! 

DT

 

[PhilR]

I thought 45 degrees and 3.5m we had just abandoned because at some grounds they "hit the roof"

The ground where they hit the roof, located just off the A37, has closed. A ground owner on the CPSA board drove that one through.

 

[ips]

used to happen on a northern ground too.

DT

just my opinion but I see UT as a no mans land, neither one thing or another. Many seem to like it of course so my opinion is of no consequence.

 

[PhilR]

used to happen on a northern ground too.

DT

just my opinion but I see UT as a no mans land, neither one thing or another. Many seem to like it of course so my opinion is of no consequence.

Your last sentence is absolutely correct??

 

[ips]

exactly Phil. Merely airing my opinion as is my right.

hows milo ?

 

[jwpzx9r]

Oye! What's wrong with UT? At least its regulated targets while the shooters are a little less 'focussed' than the OT lot.

Don't see any problem with multiple trap disciplines (apparently choice its what the shooter wants...allegedly?). I just wish they would just stop f*cking around with the existing ones!! 

DT

I like UT although the targets are actually quite similar to those of ABT the difference is that all shooters shoot the same targets and this is vital for meaningful competition. I think the new "snake " UT format would have to be considerably superior to the current format or I fear that, here at least, clubs will be reluctant to change their set ups and buy the new equipment required to shoot it.

 

[Les53]

 The targets are set 45 degrees left and right, with the height being between 1.5m and 3.5m. .

Phil, is this moving closer to the old ABT that we grew up with? I can't remember the old spec for it though, it's been a long time now! I seem to remember 45 deg daisy cutters, as well others from zero right up to 45, not to mention some that almost seemed vertical!!!  

 

[ips]

I seem to remember when it was on a curve it was 1m - 3m 45degrees and I think 70m but I could be wrong

ps

I would like a smart arse to work out what ludicrous angle it will actually be from 1&5 on the current straight line pegs. ???

I was not in school for that particular math lesson or indeed for many others

 

[40UP]

We'll now need an England team who shoot 30deg and a GB team who shoot 45deg. Anyone would think FITASC just wanted to raise more money.

 

[Paul120]

The idea being tried is as follows:

All shooters line up outside layout 1, shooter 1 goes to peg 1, he shots two pairs and a single, then moves to peg 2, shooter two goes to peg 1, shoots his sequence, then shooter 1 shoots, they move and shooter3 enters and so on.   The addition of pairs to UT is not good, the whole thing is like the death of a discipline....

so apart from agreeing to adopt the new fitasc trap have they changed the UT rules at the same time?

 

[Dog Tyred]

The idea being tried is as follows:

All shooters line up outside layout 1, shooter 1 goes to peg 1, he shots two pairs and a single, then moves to peg 2, shooter two goes to peg 1, shoots his sequence, then shooter 1 shoots, they move and shooter3 enters and so on.   The addition of pairs to UT is not good, the whole thing is like the death of a discipline....

can't get my head around pairs of UT targets. Imagine getting an extreme left and extreme right as a pair on peg three   which one do you shoot at first?

Still waiting for feedback on the trial at Umbriaverde at the weekend.

 

[Salopian]

If that photograph is anything to judge by , the new format  is a total success !

Obviously yet ANOTHER broken Trap.

 

[PhilR]

This is what I've gleaned so far from people who were actually at the Demo event. No pairs, five singles from each of the five stands shot consecutively. Schemes as currently set so still random but if your first two targets are left handers it follows you're going to get a straight and two rights, but in whatever order the scheme throws. You'll be able to work out the last couple of targets on each stand.There's going to be a Grand Prix in Italy at Lonato in the early part of 2016 - February/March and it'll be decided then whether the European and World are run on the new system or old allegedly.It seems that it takes about 16 minutes to shoot 25 targets and on that basis more shooters can be got through in the same shooting day than squadded. In the old days we shot 4 ranges over 4 days with the shoot split AM and PM. FITASC then decided than to get more shooters only 6 or 8 ranges could be used, I haven't actually seen a large increase in numbers since that change and I've shot UT abroad for 25 years. With the new system 4 layout grounds can be reintroduced to championship events.

 For each layout there'll need to be three official referees instead of the one plus two shooters from the previous squad as there won't be squads. That'll put quite a cost onto the organisers for a FITASC GP, Continental or World championship.

 

[Dog Tyred]

Interesting stuff Phil.

My thoughts. Having to shoot 5 targets on the bounce will mess with a lot of peoples set up for each shot. Currently a lot of shooters start the pre-shoot routine as soon as they move onto the mat. Have they changed the time limit for each shot, bearing in mind they shooter now has to reload between shots and re-compose themselves (which previously they would have done before their turn to shoot)?

Plus some shooters take every available second to mount and call for the target so waiting next to them will be a nightmare. If a line is made up predominantly of sloths the round will take considerably longer than 16 mins.  Also sounds like a lot of standing around on the line while you wait for four other shooters to shoot five targets each before your flurry of activity and then another long wait!

What happens if a shooter is late to the line? Do they hold the line for 3 mins while the shooter is called three times? Although I assume the line will be 'controlled' prior to stepping on peg one? But how much time will be spent (wasted) queuing in the 'snake' just to make sure you are not late for your go?

Does the shooter clear the mat after the next shooter has finished his five shoots or do they wait until peg five has completed and all shift up one (bit like DTL)?  If the latter, does the new peg 1 have to walk onto his mat, load and then shoot five targets?

Surely Feb/march is far to late to consider introducing this format at the Europeans in June! It only leaves 2 months for competitors to become familiar with the format, bearing in mind a lot of grounds wont have the equipment straightaway as they will be waiting until Fe//March for the go-ahead to buy new control boxes. I suspect there will be a wait for the bits.

As for shooter numbers, The euros was full entry but only at the last minute. Not sure the worlds was a full entry, but it was pretty close to being full, again at the last minute. Do they really believe they will attract more entries by making it a race?

Personally I liked the four day format of the Euros (shoot AM or PM on alternate days). Minimal hanging around between squads. The three day event at Granada was a bind as you had to be at the ground all day, every day with 2 hour plus waits between squads.   

A final point, the ref/scorers are going to have to be on the ball as there will be no natural break in proceedings, with the squad constantly changing.

I realise you will not have answers to the above but will be interesting to find out in the fullness of time.

All sounds like a complete arse to me

DT

 

[john]

16 minutes to shoot 25 targets ? was that timed on 5 shooters or 6  ????

 

[Dog Tyred]

16 minutes to shoot 25 targets ? was that timed on 5 shooters or 6  ????

I assume that's 5 as there is no rotation from 5 to 1. In effect there is no sixth shooter as the line is continuous?

Doesn't seem much of a time saving does it as a six man squad usually takes about 20 minutes. I guess the time saving comes from not having to rotate the squads?

DT

 

[40UP]

16 minutes is the time for an individual shooter to exit the layout, there are no squads. 3 minutes is the time to change pegs so no problem there. FITASC haven't adopted the 12 second rule so 10 seconds for each target. 3 FITASC referees for each layout, that'll be the day [the experience at Southern Counties was enough of that]. What use was being made of layout 2,3,4 while layout 1 was getting started? How will the visible scoreboard work?