Noob Again - Lead

[RussP]

So i had my first solo session with my new to me 682 gold E, its a cracker. problem, i couldn't hit a barn door with a banjo on crossing birds at any sort of distance, until i experimented with swing through, i then started hitting things. Its the absolute least instinctive thing for me as it seems so random but i had the most success by far. really odd. should i stick with it? can that technique be ok for most shots?

Thanks in advance

 

[chippy]

So i had my first solo session with my new to me 682 gold E, its a cracker. problem, i couldn't hit a barn door with a banjo on crossing birds at any sort of distance, until i experimented with swing through, i then started hitting things. Its the absolute least instinctive thing for me as it seems so random but i had the most success by far. really odd. should i stick with it? can that technique be ok for most shots?

Thanks in advance

A chap called digweed seems to do ok with it.

 

[RussP]

A chap called digweed seems to do ok with it.

Ah yes. He’s quite good.

 

[Bebo]

Horses for courses. Pick the technique that works for you for a particular target type. For me that's:
- longer loopers, battues and long crossers that need a big gap I shoot maintained lead.
- slower closer loopers etc that need no lead at all, just track the target and shoot at it.
- middling crossers that needs a small lead, maintained doesn't work for me (I slow the gun and miss off the back edge). I am forcing myself to shoot swing through (or even swing to on some targets). If I do it confidently it works, if not I stutter and measure.
- sharply quartering targets I hold out and use minimal gun movement (works if you get your hold point and timing right).
- driven, if not really high I used maintained and shoot them out in front. Really, really high ones I have been known to use swing through as I find it more difficult to keep the right line with maintained on those.
- overheads if they are low and fast I let them come past the barrel and swing through them. High and slow, let them come to the barrel and maintain lead them.

Confusing isn't it?

 

[Will Hewland]

GD and his like are so talented that I’m not sure you can follow what they do. Their biggest advantage is the millions of cartridges they’ve fired.

I think Swing Through is usually necessary for beginners, as it forces movement where stopping and poking is the early problem. However, it’s a blunt instrument IMO and has its limitations when larger lead and complex line need judging well. So once you’re not stopping the gun, experimenting with pull away as a default pays a lot of dividends.

 

[Jonny English]

In general for crossing and quartering targets I use:

Slow targets - swing through to keep the gun moving

Medium to decent- pull away

Fast or short window - maintained lead for consistency and reaction times

Driven and going away I use swing through.

Other main variable is hold points in order to generate that gun movement. Slow targets and driven I would use 1/3 from view point so that I don't jump early and set-off in front. Medium speed 50/50. Shallow angle targets and going away I use 2/3 from view point for consistency.

Everyone is different and there is always an exception even to your own guidelines.

 

[RussP]

GD and his like are so talented that I’m not sure you can follow what they do. Their biggest advantage is the millions of cartridges they’ve fired.

I think Swing Through is usually necessary for beginners, as it forces movement where stopping and poking is the early problem. However, it’s a blunt instrument IMO and has its limitations when larger lead and complex line need judging well. So once you’re not stopping the gun, experimenting with pull away as a default pays a lot of dividends.

Yes stopping and poking I think that’s what I was doing. I need to make a deliberate effort to keep the gun moving.

Thanks

 

[Oldblaster]

For me maintain lead, is best, with a smooth swing the same speed as the target, never ever take your eye off the target to check your lead you will miss behind.

 

[MartynB]

Just my uneducated two bobs worth . No one shoots with just one technique . I’ve got friends who say that they shoot method X , and it’s obvious watching them that they shoot a variety of methods as the target changes .

 

[Martinj]

I tend to agree with most. As a general rule, I do swing through for skeet crossing type shots i.e. anything fast and close. Sustained lead for longer crossers, these days I do more sustained than anything, I'm usually well aware of how much lead in feet in front of the target I'm giving it. If I give something 6 feet and it breaks I'll endeavour to give the next target 6 feet.

 

[Scotty]

A chap called digweed seems to do ok with it.

I'm sure I've heard of him. Greg, or something like that.

 

[donna]

Or you could subscribe to Bens subscription page which will give you an amazing abundance of tips, talking through methods step by step, when to use which method etc. If you are a beginner he explains it very well and so many videos on there to watch.

 

[bordergun]

There is a book that sells well in the US "You're Behind it, the Unit Lead system for Sporting Clays" that will tell you how much lead you need on every target on a skeet field or SC course. Many coaches here in the US use the system. At one time, it was distrubuted by Richard Rawlingson who wrote Georges book "Its got to be perfect". There are shooters that use this sysyem in the UK but unfortunately, the cost of mailing the book there now is nearly prohibitive. If you e mail the author here:- www.peteblakeley.com I'm sure he will help if he can.

 

[Will Hewland]

If you match the gun with the speed of a medium speed clay, a decent reference point is foot of lead for every ten yards distance..

 

[bordergun]

Will. That is correct. But the Unit Lead System relies on seeing lead in the peripheral vision at the muzzle. There are several distinct advantages. On all the angular shots, (as crazy as it may seem), target speed and target range are inconsequential. As a result, building up a "library of sight pictures" becomes very easy, weeks not years. Several top coaches here in the US use the methodology, Including Bobby Fowler and Anthony Materese. If you click on www.eliteshooting.com and go to the press room, you can read Bobby's article "Mastering Long Crossing Shots" where he says this. Also, there is an interesting post on Shotgun World "Instinctive shooting" where top shooter Bayne Horne says he used the system to get to the top and the US team.

 

[bordergun]

Seeing the correct sight picture is what motivates any of us to pull the trigger. Anyone who would like advice on how this system works please e mail me here:- www.peteblakeley.com I'm not trying to sell anything and the advice is FREE

 

[MartynB]

Books are fine and videos are fine , but nothing solves a problem like a session with a good instructor , by that I mean someone who can identify the level you are at , is proven themselves in the discipline you want to shoot , and can take you to the next level . You will get more out of £150 session as a beginner than shooting 300 self taught clays . Clay shooting is fairly unique in that a reasonable sum can get you a session with someone who is world class .

 

[bordergun]

I agree, but the key word here is a GOOD instructor. If you can get one that can explain lead, great. Most shotgunners, after a few months, always consider themselves to be coaches. But many shotgun coaches cannot explain the lead requirement to their students in a logical way. So they tell them "just focus on the leading edge of the target and the lead require is the magic of your subconscious". It isn't. It is trigonometry and ballistic sense.

 

[vmax1010]

Definition of a good instructor: some one who explains why you missed not where you missed

 

[Will Hewland]

OK, I’ll bite. I’m in the measurement and logic camp in terms of explaining / seeing lead. The laws of physics alone are at play here, not witchcraft. However, people are different so there are plenty of caveats around what people see as lead. Sometimes this is down to an erratic shooting style (such as fast swing through, which masks it) but also it’s down to what some people think 6 feet looks like. My mate once told me a car was 10 feet wide, when it is more like 6. So proving the maths is all very well but you have to be a shooter that is calibrated to do so and who also isn’t adding in yet another variable by stopping or flicking the gun unwittingly (which are habits to try and eradicate of course). It’s definitely multi dimensional in all human reality.